Hydraulic Cylinder Operation

[GreensvilleJay]

OK, really need to get a pen and paper, make a text chart like I've shown.You have 2 remotes, I call them A and B, normal and swapped(aka reversed) are the hose connections., deflector is the cylinder to shoot snow far,far away, rotator dumps it left or right.
Start with A-normal-deflector and test 3 times. If correct operation ,put a check mark in the box
do this for all 8 configurations.
post your chart
from this we should be able to figure out what's going wrong and where.
English words are OK but charts are easy to understand and confirm all combinations have been done. It's real easy to connect 2 black hoses the same way 3 times....BTDT !

FYI Tractor Data says that tractor can supply 9.5 GPM. If true, that means the deflector should go down to up in about 1 second ! My gut says that's way too fast,so I'm wondering are the hose JUST hoses or re there 'flow restrictors' connected to them ?

 

[TheOldHokie]

OK, really need to get a pen and paper, make a text chart like I've shown.You have 2 remotes, I call them A and B, normal and swapped(aka reversed) are the hose connections., deflector is the cylinder to shoot snow far,far away, rotator dumps it left or right.
Start with A-normal-deflector and test 3 times. If correct operation ,put a check mark in the box
do this for all 8 configurations.
post your chart
from this we should be able to figure out what's going wrong and where.
English words are OK but charts are easy to understand and confirm all combinations have been done. It's real easy to connect 2 black hoses the same way 3 times....BTDT !

FYI Tractor Data says that tractor can supply 9.5 GPM. If true, that means the deflector should go down to up in about 1 second ! My gut says that's way too fast,so I'm wondering are the hose JUST hoses or re there 'flow restrictors' connected to them ?

Arrrrg!!!!

This is as simple as it gets. Take the hoses off the cylinder and check for flow on each hose. No need for combinatorial charts!!!!

 

[#40Fan]

Would you care to offer a way to actually test that theory?

Dan

Your suggestion to remove the hoses and place in a bucket will check the flow one direction, but you do need to test return flow. If, as LorenS suggests, there is an internal hose issue that only blocks flow on the return side, your test won't catch it.

 

[NordTrac]

OK, seems mostly probable that one or both of the deflector hoses has a problem. I'll go ahead and try the deflector hoses on the rotation motor this coming weekend when I get back to the country home. I'll report on the results.

Thank you all for the suggestions!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Your suggestion to remove the hoses and place in a bucket will check the flow one direction, but you do need to test return flow. If, as LorenS suggests, there is an internal hose issue that only blocks flow on the return side, your test won't catch it.

That was a starting point. Here - full diagnostic for the hydraulically challenged. Takes maybe 15 minutes and will quickly narrow down the problem.

1. Remove base end hose from cylinder, place in bucket and operate valve. If no flow there is a problem in that hose or outlet
2. If good flow reconnect hose and remove male tip on other hose. Place hose in bucket and operate valve. If no flow problem is in that hose.
3. If flow the tip is bad.

No guessing, no speculation, just an orderly progression through the circuit.

Dan

 

[NordTrac]

The cylinder is not your problem. Its a vanilla double acting cylinder and about as simple as it gets.

Do the remote valves have a float position? I am guessing you dont know what that means.

I suggest you conduct a quick and simple test of the hose connections.

Disconnect both hoses at the cylinder, put the ends in a bucket, and start the tractor.

Move the control lever full down. You should get a strong continuos flow from one hose.

Pull the lever full up and you should get the same flow from the other cylinder.

If you dont get good flow in each direction somethings wrong at the valve or outlets.

Dan

The remotes do not have float position.

 

[TheOldHokie]

The remotes do not have float position.

Good, that eliminates one of my thoughts.

Now go read post #25 and conduct that test sequence. It should be obvious but just in case its not - the cylinder has.to be in the retracted state for step #2.

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

1500 PSI oil coming out of an unsecured 1/4" hose can be very,very dangerous

BTW didn't the Op say he used the def hoses to rotate and that worked fine ? if so, that'd rule out 'bad hose'.

 

[TheOldHokie]

1500 PSI oil coming out of an unsecured 1/4" hose can be very,very dangerous

BTW didn't the Op say he used the def hoses to rotate and that worked fine ? if so, that'd rule out 'bad hose'.

Use your brain. There is no 1500 PSI oil!!!

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

really ? he has hydraulic hoses,connected to remotes on his tractor. most tractors today run around 1500PSI...so why do you say 'there is no 1500PSI oil' ?

OK Google AI says....
The Kubota MX5200HST hydraulic system typically operates around 2300-2500 PSI

BTW the spec is not in the Kubota 8 page brochure.

so it's higher than I originally thought..similar to a lot of pressure washers

 

[TheOldHokie]

really ? he has hydraulic hoses,connected to remotes on his tractor. most tractors today run around 1500PSI...so why do you say 'there is no 1500PSI oil' ?

Because there is no load on the circuit. Open circuit pressure is going to be more like 20-30 PSI at the end of the hose and falls off fast.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

really ? he has hydraulic hoses,connected to remotes on his tractor. most tractors today run around 1500PSI...so why do you say 'there is no 1500PSI oil' ?

OK Google AI says....
The Kubota MX5200HST hydraulic system typically operates around 2300-2500 PSI

BTW the spec is not in the Kubota 8 page brochure.

so it's higher than I originally thought..similar to a lot of pressure washers

You clearly do not understand how open center hydraulic systems behave. Read post #31.

Dan

 

[LorenS]

Would you care to offer a way to actually test that theory?

Dan

Sure. We could use your later comment of " Take the hoses off the cylinder and check for flow on each hose." In this case, compressed air would work well. And, I'd check the hoses in each direction.

This isn't some off the wall "theory", it's a common enough problem in old automotive brake hoses, resulting in calipers that don't release.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Sure. We could use your later comment of " Take the hoses off the cylinder and check for flow on each hose." In this case, compressed air would work well. And, I'd check the hoses in each direction.

This isn't some off the wall "theory", it's a common enough problem in old automotive brake hoses, resulting in calipers that don't release.

I have never rejected the possibility of a collapsed hose. In fact I havent posited or ruled out any failure mode. Early on I was even considering operator error. My objection this thread has been all speculation and no orderly testing. Thats why I asked you how you would test your theory.

We can do the testing the hard way or easy way. I see no need need for air when you already have hydraulic fluid you can easily see and quantify.. Three steps and 15 minutes will test both the hoses and couplers and find the fault in the circuit with nothing nore than a couple wrenches and a bucket.

Dan

 

[LorenS]

I don't care if you see no need for air. By the same token, I assume you don't care that I see no need to start the tractor to provide hydraulic flow when one can simply remove both hoses and test them in both directions with a shot of compressed air. I don't care how Nordtrac checks the hoses; in fact, if he doesn't want to check them at all it won't affect me in the slightest.

I "posited" a failure mode that makes sense. You've thrown stones at every suggestion mentioned, and questioned the intelligence of a man by assuming he needs to be told how to check flow through a freaking hose.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I don't care if you see no need for air. By the same token, I assume you don't care that I see no need to start the tractor to provide hydraulic flow when one can simply remove both hoses and test them in both directions with a shot of compressed air. I don't care how Nordtrac checks the hoses; in fact, if he doesn't want to check them at all it won't affect me in the slightest.

I "posited" a failure mode that makes sense. You've thrown stones at every suggestion mentioned, and questioned the intelligence of a man by assuming he needs to be told how to check flow through a freaking hose.

I think you need to take a chill pill.

J simply asked you for a test procedure and never questioned your collapsed hose idea or your intelligence. I was hoping you would help this thread out by contributing some orderly testing ideas but apparently that was too much to ask.

Have a nice evening.

Dan

 

[Like Tractors]

Oh my goodness, as I read the replies I realize, you can't make this shit up! I am so glad I grew up on the farm and learned basic hydraulic troubleshooting skills. People, this is very simple, fluid flow is being checked in one direction. My dad would have slapped the shit out of me if I had gone through this much drama for a 10 minute problem.