grease for a bolt that screws into a tapped hole

[zake1000]

Hi,
Sorry if this had been asked before, but I spent some time and could not find the info I needed.
I have bolts that screw into tapped holes (that do not go all the way through and do not come out on the other side). Specifically the ones that hold the loader (La463) arm brackets or the ROPS bracket. I'm trying to mount the backhoe subframe to my L2800, and had to pull out the existing bolts and replace with longer ones.
The question I have is, when you take the existing bolts out, there is grease on them from the factory. What type of grease is it? I'd like to use the same kind of grease.
Thank you

 

[Dave_eng]

Grease in bolt holes is not something normally found on a factory assembly line. Dealers installing optional equipment can have their own methods. Most factory bolts are installed dry, however, in the real world being able to remove a bolt after many years of service can be a big concern. My preference is to use an anti seize compound, reduce the recommended torque by a bit, perhaps 8 to 10 % and then check frequently for a time until you are satisfied that the parts have bedded in and the torque remains constant. The anti seize compound will reduce thread friction and result in higher clamping forces with lower torque values.
Why are you having to change yours? Too long a bolt in a blind hole (A hole that does not go all the way through) can cause lots of damage. In some cases it will push the bottom out of the blind hole. In others the threads can be damaged as the bolt is trying to push the threads out of the blind hole.
Be careful please.
Expect others to have many differing opinions.
Dave M7040

 

[OldMasterTech]

Grease in bolt holes is not something normally found on a factory assembly line. Dealers installing optional equipment can have their own methods. Most factory bolts are installed dry, however, in the real world being able to remove a bolt after many years of service can be a big concern. My preference is to use an anti seize compound, reduce the recommended torque by a bit, perhaps 8 to 10 % and then check frequently for a time until you are satisfied that the parts have bedded in and the torque remains constant. The anti seize compound will reduce thread friction and result in higher clamping forces with lower torque values.
Why are you having to change yours? Too long a bolt in a blind hole (A hole that does not go all the way through) can cause lots of damage. In some cases it will push the bottom out of the blind hole. In others the threads can be damaged as the bolt is trying to push the threads out of the blind hole.
Be careful please.
Expect others to have many differing opinions.
Dave M7040

Everything Dave said plus note that grease in a blind hole can not be compressed. Using a longer fastener plus the grease is asking for trouble. I would clean out the grease and use and anti seize product as well.

 

[Tooljunkie]

A medium strength threadlocker is also something used. Because its a thread sealant,it prevents corrosion. A little heat and out it comes. My preferred method.

The bolts for the three point bracket broke, i replaced with long ones. Bottomed out in holes and used nuts to snug the plates to rear housing.
Worked very well

 

[Stubbyie]

Agree with all posts prior to this one on this subject.

Medium strength anaerobic thread locker would be a name-brand 'blue' type.

Only problem is that later if heat is needed (it shouldn't, with 'blue'), the application of that heat is sometimes a problem---nearby wires, paint, or anything else in the way.

The material you saw on your removed bolts may have been one of the OEM dry-film threadlockers, acts somewhat like putty when or as removed.

Over time I've learned to replace every--with rare exceptions--bolt or nut with a good thick application of Kopr-Kote or similar (other similar material incorporating nickel instead of copper for high-temp, e.g., muffler clamps, uses). Apply to bolt--not into hole--and wipe off excess when tight.

For body sheetmetal-type bolts, e.g., fenders, handrails, dash mounts, I commonly use plain old plumbing Rector Seal thread sealant. Dries semi-solid, doesn't smear, and doesn't stain hands and clothes like copper.

Torquing to a precise value can require some insight when using a thread sealant. If you dig deep enough for each brand commercial or industrial thread sealant or lubricant you can find that manufacturer's specification for how to obtain a specific torque value. You might have to work the phone to their TechServ Line but if persistent will find an answer.

Remember too copper and other metallic-based materials can be conductive.

You mention loader arms are involved. I can appreciate that torquing to a specific value may be proper, but...

I tighten mine every year or so. They're something like 7/8-in Gr-8 bolts. I hang a breaker bar on them and carefully use a cheater. It's not a head-bolt [stud] and I'm more interested in tight than a specific torque value.

Please post back your continuing experiences so we may all learn.

 

[zake1000]

Thank you all for your replies.

I am trying to install a sub frame, and need to remove the existing bolts and install new ones 20mm longer to account for the thickness of the metal in the sub frame.

I have a heat anti size compound (silver and very messy), will do some research as to torquing properly.

If i were to use medium thread locking compound, are we talking about big heat, with an oxy acetylene torch or a propane or map torch would work. In order to take the existing bolts off, i did have to heat them (i used a propane torch for about 30 mins).
Again, thank you all for your help.

 

[redfernclan]

In my experience, you do not need to use heat to remove the blue lock tite. The red, sometimes if you don't want to break the bolt. Biggest problem is that people use it wrong or improperly. More is not better, clean is better. The bolt and hole need to be clean and dry. No oil film. Then a dab will do ya. When I worked at the sawmill, they would buy the red stuff in 32 oz bottles and go through it like soda pop, then wonder why it didn't hold.
One last thing to keep in mind, when you get down to the nitty gritty, torque specs are written for clean dry threads. If they are dirty, rusty, have never seize applied or are greased and oiled, this all affects the torque spec. But in reality, we are not talking about connecting rods on a race engine. There is enough "fudge factor" engineered in to account for this. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Red locktite needs 450 degrees to release. A heat gun will reach that temperature easily. Propane is fine. Blue is lower temp or no heat at all. Threads must be clean. No oil or grease.

Buddy of mine broke 2 box end 12 mm wrenches trying to remove the yoke on his ford. Called me, i said propane heat. Two minutes later bolts come out easy.

 

[Daren Todd]

There are actually 2 types of the red loctite. hi strength which is what tool junky was talking about. They also make a hi temp which is also red. And will not melt till around 1000 degrees. Make sure and check the label.
Had a new mechanic grab the wrong stuff and used it. Turned a 20 minute job into a 5 hour job when I had to go back in a fix something


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Garandman]

//If i were to use medium thread locking compound, are we talking about big heat, with an oxy acetylene torch or a propane or map torch would work. In order to take the existing bolts off, i did have to heat them (i used a propane torch for about 30 mins).
Again, thank you all for your help.

This stuff.

 

[Stubbyie]

I've steered clear of using the highest temp thread locker because I want to be able to get it apart maybe someday. For our uses, the 'low temp' red will do fine if you really need that level of fastener retention.

95% of the stuff on this Forum, 'blue' anaerobic thread locker is the best stuff since sliced bread.

Question is asked about application of heat. I occasionally come across fasterners 1/4-in and less in diameter that have had 'blue' locker applied. I've found that heating an old soldering "copper" iron with a torch and then applying it exactly to the fastener is a fast easy less sloppy and precision way to apply heat that makes removal of the smaller stuff much easier. The larger the fastener, the more the heat: I have had to judiciously apply oxy-propane heat on some.

When using thread lockers (not 'sealant' as in Kopr-Kote or Rector Seal) the mating surfaces must be scruptuously clean for proper function. Just like in the PVC pipe world, a cleaner is available but I use non-oily acetone fingernail polish remover and a tiny 'TB' syringe.

The messy silver sealant material Zake1000 mentions is probably a nickel-type high-temp. Great stuff when needed and typically works wonderfully.

Please continue to post back your experiences so we may all learn.