First Post-z650

[clevernickname]

Ok, my first post and looking for some help.

My z650 wont start- cause: no fuel to injectors

things Ive tried:
bleeding pump and lines at the injectors,
pressurizing fuel system with electric pump.
checked for free movement at fuel rack? I think. Under cover on side of injector pump
total cranking time at 10-15 seconds each has been about 2.5 minutes.
I get no fuel out of the injector pump at all. Fuel to the pump is not an issue, and I completely removed my injector lines to make sure.
I cant find any info on this pump whatsoever, so I guess I need some help

I should also mention that I have just the engine, no tractor with it. I have radiator, dynamo, starter etc.
Also, I noticed that I cant seem to locate a manual fuel shut off on the pump, or a place for a soloniod. It may be that it is equipped with a shut off and I dont recognize it, there is a fitting coming off of the front of the pump housing that I thought was for a mechanical tach, but could be a fuel shut off. Kinda stumped. Any help is much appreciated

 

[clevernickname]

ok, having a little trouble pulling the pump. I got the spring unhooked on the inside of the housing, but my problem is with a lock-nutted set screw that goes through the housing, penetrates the housing, holds a small coil spring that slips into a round boss that goes into the pump (wow is that a convoluted confusing statement). If that makes sense. The set screw in question is protected on the outside by a crimp on cover, to prevent tampering. Anyways, that little chrome boss sticking out of the side of the pump is preventing me from pulling the pump out of the hole. what am i doing wrong?

additionally, with the inspection cover removed, I can manually throttle the engine using the external throttle, and the arm inside the cover only travels about 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch. Is this normal? or should it have a greater range of motion? I apologize for the lack of proper part names, but Im short on literature for the moment, and still trying to get educated.

Pics will be on tonight, if I can

 

[Apogee]

Not sure on this particular engine, but many of the Kubota's have a lift pump on the side of the main injection pump. If the lift pump is shot, it will act like you describe.

Would certainly be the easier fix than removing the whole injection pump.

Good luck,

Steve

 

[clevernickname]

hopefully the pictures in my previous post will help somebody understand what I clumsily explained earlier. I.E. the missing fuel shut off, the boss and small coil spring that wont allow my pump to come out, etc. anyways, thanks everyone for the help so far, and keep the suggestions coming!

 

[clevernickname]

thanks very much for the detailed posts, and for taking the time to help me get my little chugger going. I think we are at no fuel coming out of the injector pump, but in the interest of being thorough (sp), Im going to reassemble, attempt a bleed again, then move on to pulling the pump and bench testing. I would be very interested in the procedure to bench test this pump, after a really good cleaning, of course! again, thanks much for the help, and Im sure we will get this thing going soon!

regards, chet

 

[clevernickname]

UPDATE! we may be getting closer! It appears after further disassembly, that my control rod in the pump is stuck. Its also stuck in a rear position, thereby not allowing the pump to come up out of the hole. the pump housing has a notch cast into it that allows the control rod pin to come out of the housing. Im trying to get it freed up enough to at least pull out


2nd update: Pump is out on the bench, control rod definitly stiff/stuck. soaking in diesel at the moment. Suggestions for cleaning, unsticking? Favorite methods? Im looking for any ideas on how to correctly proceed. Once again, thanks very much for sharing your knowledge

Im operating under the assumption that the control rod in the pump should move freely and with little to no effort, if this is incorrect please let me know, but for now im just going to pb blast it and try to get it working smoothly again

 

[clevernickname]

lol, well its slowly freeing up, If I push hard with my thumbs, it moves through its travel, and thanks for the "definitive test", now I have a concrete goal. The pump is currently soaking in a gallon of pb blaster, which should penetrate better than plain diesel fuel. Im going to check it after I take the kiddos to the river, and just keep working it, eventually something has to happen.

im curious if I can loosen the delivery valve holders on the top of the pump so the blaster can get inside the valves better, or would this cause issues? Im not taking anything apart, just loosening those caps

additionally, I was wondering if the plungers on the bottom of the pump should travel up and down easily, and if so, how far should they travel?

nvm on the plungers, those are working fine now, still curious about the nut on top of the injectors though

 

[clevernickname]

Can anyone recommend a solvent for soaking this pump? Ive tried pb blaster, diesel, and my chemdip carb cleaning solvent

 

[birddogger]

That depends on what it is you are fighting, rust- Kroil; if fighting sludge/varnish a product called "Gum Cutter" by Berkebile.
Actually Kroil will do a fair job on varnish too.

 

[clevernickname]

thanks Birddogger, I didnt even think of kroil. Never heard of the other stuff, but Ill check my local parts places and see what I can come up with.

 

[Stubbyie]

Kroil (KanoLabs.Com---I think) is great stuff and has saved us man-days over the years working on old green tractors and ancient single-cylinder oilfield engines.

Look at Kano Labs and see their other products. They have one or some that will do a better job of cleaning your varnish sludge rust and general krape. Most of their products can be obtained by ordering direct with a money-back guarantee or some kind of package deal.

In my area Kroil is next to impossible to find on a store shelf except for a very few specialized industrial-level supply shops near big oilfield or refinery centers. Have ordered direct from mfg for maybe twenty years and always had a good experience.

Spouse often works with me. Years ago she was the one that tracked down Kroil when we were overhauling an old Ajax single-banger engine. Saved the day!

Good luck and please continue posting. I'm looking over your shoulder learning more about fuel systems.

 

[birddogger]

Some gun-shops have Kroil. Some shotgunners mix up their own cleaning fluid using Kroil, seems to do well cleaning the plastic from shotgun bores too.

 

[clevernickname]

I actually keep kroil on hand for some old gun projects I have going, the gum cutter Ill have to look for. The chem dip is working, but it is very slow.

went out and checked the pump, and its free! Slides under its own weight even. what a relief! Now im going to come home after work and stick it together and see it it pumps fuel, maybe itll start today!

 

[clevernickname]

Well, upon installation of the pump, only one side pumps fuel I discovered. Further inspection/repair seems necessary. Are there any shops that will rebuild grey market pumps? My local guys wont touch it. Also, are there any internal engine parts available such as rings and bearings? I dont know that I will need any of those, but it makes sense to have the resources handy

thanks much guys and gals

 

[clevernickname]

will do vic. I havent had a lot of free time lately, but I suspect something may be wrong with the pump. I will soak some more first