Certainly you are not claiming that the US fought WWII to protect US gasoline supplies???
Or are you?
SDT
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Dealer today....
- Thread starter SidecarFlip
- Start date
Or are you?
SDT
Once again, I have no objections to whatever projects that greenies (or just about anyone else) chooses to undertake with their own money.
The fact remains that the private sector will develop projects that make long term economic sense without taxpayer money. It did so with the petroleum industry and it will do so with electric vehicles if/when technology advances to the point that such is cost effective. Obviously, that time has not yet come.
FWIW, I do not buy F 150s, and you need not either.
SDT
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I suspect that money will get a bit tight in the near term in as much as the market dropped 2000 points today, the biggest drop since the crash of 1911?
Things are getting real ugly, real fast and the Wuhan Flu hasn't really come on...yet.
It will. Time to buckle up I suspect. The amusement ride is just beginning....
Far as EV's go, the present day electrical grid cannot support the load anyway. You have aging infrastructure coupled with a downturn in generation capacity coupled with the notion that wind and solar power and wind power can replace stationary conventional electric power generation, be it coal, nuclear or NG fired high pressure turbines.
Got news for you.. If the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, no juice gets created.
Finally, solar energy depletes productive farm ground (I'd much rather eat than starve) and solar arrays drop 1% in capacity every year of operation with a projected lifespan of 25 years so what do you do with obsolete solar panels, loaded with pollutants? Eat them?
I suspect that at some point in the distant future the internal combustion engine will become a relic but for now and the immediate future, with the abundance of coal and petroleum reserves on this planet, it makes little sense to use any other means of of energy production. All it does (alternative energy) is make a few people feel good and not much more.
EV's are about the 'feel good' thing but their time as a mainstream conveyance of people isn't here yet and won't be for the foreseeable future. like it or not.
To BEEX directly, I suggest you sell your diesel powered BX and buy an electric tractor (they are being sold right now) and go with that and report back about just how great they are. JD has a nice all electric utility tractor on the market and it's a 4x4 too. Projected running time between charges is 6 hours and it retails for $145,000.00 Might be you ticket to green heaven.
Instead of postulating and preaching about the benefits of EV's, man up and get one... I find people postulating about the virtues of EV's to be tedious.
Easy to talk the talk but walking the walk is something else entirely.
Things are getting real ugly, real fast and the Wuhan Flu hasn't really come on...yet.
It will. Time to buckle up I suspect. The amusement ride is just beginning....
Far as EV's go, the present day electrical grid cannot support the load anyway. You have aging infrastructure coupled with a downturn in generation capacity coupled with the notion that wind and solar power and wind power can replace stationary conventional electric power generation, be it coal, nuclear or NG fired high pressure turbines.
Got news for you.. If the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, no juice gets created.
Finally, solar energy depletes productive farm ground (I'd much rather eat than starve) and solar arrays drop 1% in capacity every year of operation with a projected lifespan of 25 years so what do you do with obsolete solar panels, loaded with pollutants? Eat them?
I suspect that at some point in the distant future the internal combustion engine will become a relic but for now and the immediate future, with the abundance of coal and petroleum reserves on this planet, it makes little sense to use any other means of of energy production. All it does (alternative energy) is make a few people feel good and not much more.
EV's are about the 'feel good' thing but their time as a mainstream conveyance of people isn't here yet and won't be for the foreseeable future. like it or not.
To BEEX directly, I suggest you sell your diesel powered BX and buy an electric tractor (they are being sold right now) and go with that and report back about just how great they are. JD has a nice all electric utility tractor on the market and it's a 4x4 too. Projected running time between charges is 6 hours and it retails for $145,000.00 Might be you ticket to green heaven.
Instead of postulating and preaching about the benefits of EV's, man up and get one... I find people postulating about the virtues of EV's to be tedious.
Easy to talk the talk but walking the walk is something else entirely.
Of course not.
There are more facets in a crystal of war than that. The U.S. was a huge exporter of petroleum during WW2. The Gulf of Mexico and the eastern seaboard are littered with tankers sunk by U-boats. Winston Churchill famously credited Texas oil with saving GB. (Google “Big Inch”)
Denying the enemy what they needed was, of course, the reason for our Middle-Eastern and China Sea interests (and why the Japanese took note of Pearl Harbor.)
Well said, Flip.
The elephant in the living room that the greenies do not want to address is, of course, the generating capacity and infrastructure needed to charge even a few millions of routinely used EVs.
The costs of providing such capacity and infrastructure will dwarf the costs of the few millions of EVs and the proven options are nuclear and coal. Greenies dislike both and will demand pie in the sky alternatives.
SDT
You are making assumptions. Go back and read what I wrote, you’ll find no place where I was preaching about any virtues of EV or stated any pros, cons of EV vs Diesel. You have no idea what my opinion is in that from what I wrote. I only discussed the economics of EV development today compared to the fossil fuel development of 120 years ago. And now the charging problem will most likely be solved.
You actually sound bitter about the development of EV and toward people you call “greenies”. Why do you give a crap?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
As others have mentioned, generation is a consideration.
Nuclear doesn't enthuse me all that much, living in the shadow of TMI. Have a buddy who liked working there and now has leukemia.
Swapping battery packs is close to impossible. A Tesla battery that will power you for less than 300 miles tips the scales at over 1/2 ton. This isn't like popping a fresh 20V into my DeWalt tools. Service stations would need to be large warehouses with huge electrical services. Even IF swaps could be made in 1/2 hour, there aren't many people that would have the patience to wait in line for their 30 minute turn.
Nuclear doesn't enthuse me all that much, living in the shadow of TMI. Have a buddy who liked working there and now has leukemia.
Swapping battery packs is close to impossible. A Tesla battery that will power you for less than 300 miles tips the scales at over 1/2 ton. This isn't like popping a fresh 20V into my DeWalt tools. Service stations would need to be large warehouses with huge electrical services. Even IF swaps could be made in 1/2 hour, there aren't many people that would have the patience to wait in line for their 30 minute turn.
The whole point that I am trying to make here is that Tier 4 or 5 or 86 has been put in place to make air cleaner to breathe (I'd rather breathe than suffocate) and that it pushes innovation in a direction that it would not have otherwise taken in a timely manner.
The whole EV debate on how are we going to produce the power for it is not a problem that will overpower the grid in a span that electric companies cannot keep up with. The market won't go from 99% Fossil Fueled vehicles to 100% EV overnight for a multitude of reasons. Giving power generation time to get plants built.
I'm not on the EV train because of saving the environment though. I look at it from a different perspective of if it saves me money on fuel, maintenance and gov't rebates then I'll jump on when I can afford to and it can go the distance I need it to. The additional low end torque sure will help when towing too. Most things I adopt or install in my house are based on this premise too because I want to retire before I am 80 and every penny I save is a 1/2 sooner I get to start doing what I want to rather than what I need to.
The whole EV debate on how are we going to produce the power for it is not a problem that will overpower the grid in a span that electric companies cannot keep up with. The market won't go from 99% Fossil Fueled vehicles to 100% EV overnight for a multitude of reasons. Giving power generation time to get plants built.
I'm not on the EV train because of saving the environment though. I look at it from a different perspective of if it saves me money on fuel, maintenance and gov't rebates then I'll jump on when I can afford to and it can go the distance I need it to. The additional low end torque sure will help when towing too. Most things I adopt or install in my house are based on this premise too because I want to retire before I am 80 and every penny I save is a 1/2 sooner I get to start doing what I want to rather than what I need to.
i7win7
Well-known member
Equipment
BX2370, B2650 grapple, tree puller, trailer mover, 3 point hoist, mower, tiller
Something to think about--the petro dollar
https://youtu.be/xNr1LWgIyiE?list=TLPQMTMwMzIwMjCYhU9sSvPosw
https://youtu.be/xNr1LWgIyiE?list=TLPQMTMwMzIwMjCYhU9sSvPosw
Couple of things...
.. De-humanizing the opponent is an old old method of under-handed attacks on enemies. Calling Jews “Rats” and Japanese “chinks” and caring people “greenies” is in itself a despicable act.
Nuclear is no solution for anyone caring about the planet. The amount of conventional energy expended just to create useful nuclear-fuel is an incalculable not usually mentioned. Then, as for the future, the nuclear WASTE is a 100-thousand year storage/pollution problem.
Solar panels do their best work ...NOT in farming areas.... but in sun-flooded arid desert land that has little other use.
There was never an easy-path to technological advancement. The Uniac/Univac computers that took up entire bldgs derived from a simple 5-thousand year old Abacus. The suitcase-sized computers on-board Apollo 11 were the Abacus to the World-Wide-communication/computer in your shirt pocket.... and that only took 4 decades instead of the Abacus/Univac 4-milleniums.
There’s another 4-Billion years of electricity available from the Sun.... provided we haven’t poisoned ourselves and our little biosphere called “earth” ....before we figure out how to use it.
(And, in my personal opinion, I believe we should quit foolish and expensive plans to blow tons of spent fuels to go back to Apollo 11’s dusty rock and spend that money and time on saving our planet, educating our children, curing cancer, etc etc etc. We already know more about moon-dust than we do about our own oceans which we seem determined to choke with plastic.)
Call me a “greenie” ...but it’d be best to do it at the safe distance of your keyboard.
.. De-humanizing the opponent is an old old method of under-handed attacks on enemies. Calling Jews “Rats” and Japanese “chinks” and caring people “greenies” is in itself a despicable act.
Nuclear is no solution for anyone caring about the planet. The amount of conventional energy expended just to create useful nuclear-fuel is an incalculable not usually mentioned. Then, as for the future, the nuclear WASTE is a 100-thousand year storage/pollution problem.
Solar panels do their best work ...NOT in farming areas.... but in sun-flooded arid desert land that has little other use.
There was never an easy-path to technological advancement. The Uniac/Univac computers that took up entire bldgs derived from a simple 5-thousand year old Abacus. The suitcase-sized computers on-board Apollo 11 were the Abacus to the World-Wide-communication/computer in your shirt pocket.... and that only took 4 decades instead of the Abacus/Univac 4-milleniums.
There’s another 4-Billion years of electricity available from the Sun.... provided we haven’t poisoned ourselves and our little biosphere called “earth” ....before we figure out how to use it.
(And, in my personal opinion, I believe we should quit foolish and expensive plans to blow tons of spent fuels to go back to Apollo 11’s dusty rock and spend that money and time on saving our planet, educating our children, curing cancer, etc etc etc. We already know more about moon-dust than we do about our own oceans which we seem determined to choke with plastic.)
Call me a “greenie” ...but it’d be best to do it at the safe distance of your keyboard.
Just returned from Phoenix and was surprised that there weren't solar panels on every roof because the sun shines there almost every day, and they need the most power in mid-day. My friend who I visited there (an engineer in the semiconductor industry) said heat really degrades solar panels, just as it's hard on batteries.
The ultimate solution is to somehow develop (affordable) energy storage which will enable renewables to work on a mass scale. Electric vehicles can be part of this storage because they can be charged off peak, but we need a lot more.
For years I have thought that super capacitors would become the answer but I've heard very little about such things for years.
SDT
Key word: "gov't rebates."
Translation: "Taxpayer dollars."
Cost effective technologies need neither.
Once the technology can produce cost effective solutions, the free market will make it happen.
SDT
As far as Nuclear Waste is concerned there are new reactors that reduce the half life of these materials from 100k+ years to <100 years. --https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171114091213.htm
So what that means is that old spent fuel can now be used for an extended period of time to produce even more energy and the storage of the expended fuel is not indefinite anymore and can be more properly cycled through. As technology advances the <100 year half life could reduce even further.
Also remember that the fuel in reactors does require some processing. But it is fairly sustainable because it does not need the extensive processing that nuclear weapons do because the concentration of the fuel does not need to be as high. Remember it is used to generate heat over an extended period not release all of it's energy in one immense burst.
Exactly again. There are no 'Government Rebates' or discounts on solar panels or the purchase of an EV because that 'rebate' is tax dollars that some taxpayer had to shell out through payroll deduction or some other way.
The government is the largest employer by far but makes no tangible product and exists solely in the taxes it collects and that 'rebate' is nothing more than getting a percentage back of the money you paid to them for the 'right' to live under their thumb and abide by their rules and regulations and people in general need to understand that. Sadly, they don't.
The term 'rebate' is false. There is no rebates from the government, never has been. Never will be.
Yeah... it’s been a total waste...what with taxpayer money spent on ..... roads, fire departments, health/science research, economic stability, retirement security, education, water resources, nat’l defense, .... the TOTAL WASTE of it all...
...
Spending tax dollars on the nay-sayers full of themselves and their own philosophies that depend on fellow taxpayers to bail them out of self-destruction. Why don’t you send it BACK if you don’t like it!
Someone needs to give their manure-spreaders a rest.