Can Broken Draft Affect Engine Power?

[tho2nd]

M7060 - I've been experiencing significant power loss/engine bogging when using my 7' chopper on 3 pt. hitch.

Everything seems fine on level ground, however I have some steep grades and I lose power on those grades......power loss when going up grade (either forward or backwards). And, any additional hydraulic draw, like raising the bucket, bogs me down even more.

Changed fuel & hydraulic filters.....no change.

I just discovered that the draft linkage completely separated at the valve body under the three point hitch cover, so there's been no input from draft controls.

I understand the basic function of draft, but what happens with fluid flow and valve control is all magic to me.

Question: Under these operating conditions (chopping on steep grade) could lack of any draft input cause hydraulics to impact engine performance?

TIA for any input.

 

[TheOldHokie]

M7060 - I've been experiencing significant power loss/engine bogging when using my 7' chopper on 3 pt. hitch.

Everything seems fine on level ground, however I have some steep grades and I lose power on those grades......power loss when going up grade (either forward or backwards). And, any additional hydraulic draw, like raising the bucket, bogs me down even more.

Changed fuel & hydraulic filters.....no change.

I just discovered that the draft linkage completely separated at the valve body under the three point hitch cover, so there's been no input from draft controls.

I understand the basic function of draft, but what happens with fluid flow and valve control is all magic to me.

Question: Under these operating conditions (chopping on steep grade) could lack of any draft input cause hydraulics to impact engine performance?

TIA for any input.

Anything that deadheads the hydraulic system will load up the engine. I dont know how draft works on that tractor or if thats the case here but its not inconcievable. Can you hear the relief valve squealing?

Draft control should be disabled (lever down??) in your case but a broken linkage may screw up operation of the valve.

Dan

 

[tho2nd]

Anything that deadheads the hydraulic system will load up the engine. I dont know how draft works on that tractor or if thats the case here but its not inconcievable. Can you hear the relief valve squealing?

Dan

I don’t think I do. Typical symptom is everything seems fine while chopping……plenty of power in all conditions. Then, after maybe 10-15 minutes,
I start losing power when pulling a grade. (Presumably after the hydraulics heat up?).

I don’t notice any unusual sounds.

It’s a long story, but I now realize that the parts from the draft linkage dropped into the the gear box. So right now, I’ve got all the fluid drained so I could shoot a scope in and see I could could locate any parts laying in the housing. I was able to extract one part, but I know a rod and a bushing are still in there somewhere.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I don’t think I do. Typical symptom is everything seems fine while chopping……plenty of power in all conditions. Then, after maybe 10-15 minutes,
I start losing power when pulling a grade. (Presumably after the hydraulics heat up?).

I don’t notice any unusual sounds.

It’s a long story, but I now realize that the parts from the linkage dropped into the the gear box. So right now, I’ve got all the fluid drained so I could shoot a scope in and see I could could locate any parts laying in the housing. I was able to extract one part, but I know a rod and a bushing are still in there somewhere.

What I was describing would not be temperature dependent but it would create excessive heat. What transmission do you have?

Dan

 

[tho2nd]

What I was describing would not be temperature dependent but it would create excessive heat. What transmission do you have?

Dan

It’s a 12 speed shuttle shift.

Reference attached pic. Items 90, 110, 120 fell into the ether. I recovered #90 as it was stuck to the magnet on the hydraulic filter. 110 & 120 are still unaccounted for.

Last year I was digging a stump with my backhoe and the top link connection snapped. I think it was such a jolt that the linkage assy just disconnected.

I replace the 3pt hitch cover and everything seemed fine. Didn’t notice ANY performance issues all winter while snowblowing.

Fast forward to now……tractor is bogging. I change hydraulic filters an find part #90 on my magnet.

I find the part in diagram, go back and look at pics I took during replacement and discover that the linkage wasn’t there when I disassembled to replace cover.

 

[TheOldHokie]

It’s a 12 speed shuttle shift.

Reference attached pic. Items 90, 110, 120 fell into the ether. I recovered #90 as it was stuck to the magnet on the hydraulic filter. 110 & 120 are still unaccounted for.

Last year I was digging a stump with my backhoe and the top link connection snapped. I think it was such a jolt that the linkage assy just disconnected.

I replace the 3pt hitch cover and everything seemed fine. Didn’t notice ANY performance issues all winter while snowblowing.

Fast forward to now……tractor is bogging. I change hydraulic filters an find part #90 on my magnet.

I find the part in diagram, go back and look at pics I took during replacement and discover that the linkage wasn’t there when I disassembled to replace cover.

If it wasn't there last winter what makes you think its now related to your current situation?

Dan

 

[tho2nd]

This is the first time I’ve put the hydraulics to any kind of serious work. I fixed the broken cover but then didn’t do any chopping until now.

I ran the blower this past winter, but snowblowing isn’t very taxing on the tractor.

Chopping on the other hand has me on steep slopes in hot weather.

Also, I’d read somewhere in the forums that heavy, 3pt mounted implements can make the draft valves/springs work. Even if they aren’t for groundwork.

I’m hoping that everything is related so fixing the draft linkage will cure the performance issues too!!

thanks a lot for conversing……it’s great to hear your input.

 

[TheOldHokie]

This is the first time I’ve put the hydraulics to any kind of serious work. I fixed the broken cover but then didn’t do any chopping until now.

I ran the blower this past winter, but snowblowing isn’t very taxing on th

Chopping on the other hand has me on steep slopes in hot weather.

Also, I’d read somewhere in the forums that heavy, 3pt mounted implements can make the draft valves/springs work. Even if they aren’t for groundwork.

I’m hoping that everything is related so fixing the draft linkage will cure the performance issues too!!

I am struggling to see how a hydraulic problem is causing this. You have basically ruled out deadheading and your cutter is only a hydraulic load when lifting it.

In any event you clearly need to fix the control linkage.

Dan

 

[tho2nd]

I am struggling to see how a hydraulic problem is causing this. You have basically ruled out deadheading and your cutter is only a hydraulic load when lifting it.

In any event you clearly need to fix the control linkage.

Dan

Yes. That will be fixed. I have the parts on order.

When im chopping, I don’t have the 3pt hitch completely lowered. I’m guessing that would keep a constant demand on the hydraulics?

 

[TheOldHokie]

When im chopping, I don’t have the 3pt hitch completely lowered. I’m guessing that would keep a constant demand on the hydraulics?

No - just the opposite. At the intermediate setting the 3pt control valve is in neutral (just like full down) but the lift cylinder is hydraulically locked in the raided position by the closed spool and two anti-drift poppet valves.

Thats some of the hydraulic magic you mentioned in your original post

Dan

 

[tho2nd]

You lost me after “hydraulically locked”…..

But I am disappointed to learn that……thought maybe I was on to something.

 

[tho2nd]

You lost me after “hydraulically locked”…..

But I am disappointed to learn that……thought maybe I was on to something.

Are these anti-drift poppet valves part of the valve body under the 3pt cover? (Last ditch effort to make to connection to draft control!)

 

[TheOldHokie]

You lost me after “hydraulically locked”…..

But I am disappointed to learn that……thought maybe I was on to something.

Hydraulically locked is simple. Both ends of the cylinder are blocked and the fluid trapped in the cylinder prevents the piston from moving in either direction.

This is an interesting situation. The missing linkage is affecting both draft and podition control. Difficukt to say how that might manifest itself. I will be watching for your follow-up.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Are these anti-drift poppet valves part of the valve body under the 3pt cover? (Last ditch effort to make to connection to draft control!)

Not really. I don't know their exact physical location but they are independent of the valve itself.

But this missing linkage is potentially screwing up the normal operation of the valve so we cant be sure what its doing.

Dsn

 

[tho2nd]

Hydraulically locked is simple. Both ends of the cylinder are blocked and the fluid trapped in the cylinder prevents the piston from moving in either direction.

This is an interesting situation. The missing linkage is affecting both draft and podition control. Difficukt to say how that might manifest itself. I will be watching for your follow-up.

Dan

Awesome. Thanks again for your input. I’ll be watching for other thoughts……in the meantime, waiting on parts.

I’ll update the post once I have anything worthwhile.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Awesome. Thanks again for your input. I’ll be watching for other thoughts……in the meantime, waiting on parts.

I’ll update the post once I have anything worthwhile.

I must say you have excellent communication skills and and full command of how a wrench works

Dan

 

[tho2nd]

I must say you have excellent communication skills and and full command of how a wrench works

Dan

We’ll see how that whole wrench command works! .

 

[Dustyx2]

I believe WhiteTiger suggested it may be the known injector issue and I would agree it's likely the culprit, but I also don't know what effect your broken draft control could have, so I would get that fixed first to eliminate that possibility. You have learned the hard way why 3-point backhoes are discouraged.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I believe WhiteTiger suggested it may be the known injector issue and I would agree it's likely the culprit, but I also don't know what effect your broken draft control could have, so I would get that fixed first to eliminate that possibility. You have learned the hard way why 3-point backhoes are discouraged.

Is there another thread on this problem?

Dan

 

[tho2nd]

I believe WhiteTiger suggested it may be the known injector issue and I would agree it's likely the culprit, but I also don't know what effect your broken draft control could have, so I would get that fixed first to eliminate that possibility. You have learned the hard way why 3-point backhoes are discouraged.

I expected that to come up. But I actually have a frame mounted backhoe. It mounts to the frame, but there’s still a connection to the top link for added stability. I was pulling pretty hard on a root at an angle and I think it put unequal stress on things. My property goes up the side of a hill…….seems everything I do is on a slope