Another Glow Plug Thread

[L3010HST]

Hi everyone, new to tractors but not new to being a grease monkey and week-end warrior mechanic. However, when it comes to electrical issues I’m pretty much dumb as a rock.

Bought a L3010HST recently with ~2200hrs. Runs very well and no seal leaks anywhere. I feel I found a well maintained unit regardless of the high hours.

When I brought it home, the glow plug light on dash would stay on all the time. With some research I found the glow plugs were probably on all the time (not good). So, instead of replacing one at a time the relay, timer and controller, I replaced all three at the same time. All those looked original and very dirty when I replaced them. Messicks is the place to shop and where I bought those parts.

Now the glow plug light goes off after about 2 seconds no matter the ambient temp or on first fire-up of the morning or already warmed up to op temp. The mornings are hard to start (long cranking and white smoke) with current glow plug issue now. Discovered if I cycle the ignition switch four times with light going out each time, she’ll fire right up on first start of the day (like it should).

Seems I went from one extreme (on all the time) to another (not on long enough) with glow plugs. Any ideas what it could be now?

IIRC think I read somewhere about a temp sensor the glow plug system uses as a needed input also to operate correctly?

Sorry for the novel

Many thanks in advance.

-John

 

[Stubbyie]

I wonder if you got the correct part numbers for all the new pieces? Might want to confirm.

Check all glow plugs are working. I can feel mine and tell.

Ambient temp sensor on mine is built into controller, apparently, and per TechRep.

Could be [[still, even if new]] bad controller or relay. Might try swapping out your old parts for the new one at a time.

I'm like you in wanting the dang thing to work correctly but sometimes switching out everything at once makes later or continued troubleshooting a pain. I've learned the hard way to make a change, try it, confirm function, then make another change. Try swapping [[old]] parts around to find some combination that works and go from there.

Please post back and advise how resolved so we may all learn.

 

[L3010HST]

Great suggestions Stubbyie thank you. I'll try those when I get back to where she's sitting. On a trip right now. Boy, getting behind the dash where those components are is a real pain-in-the-.....

Messicks Kubota OEM part numbers do match my model and what they sent, so step one troubleshooting confirmed being correct parts.

My statement about temp sensor was more specifically meaning a coolant sensor that talks to the Controller/Timer, but one step at a time per your suggestions. Thanks again and will report back with results.

 

[Kingcreek]

I follow this thread with baited breath.
My L3010GST (1999) with 1150 hours has a glow plug issue where the indicator light comes on or goes off when it feels like it, sometimes works normally, and sometimes it comes on dim and flickering before going off or full on during normal operation. It always glows good at ignition and starts and runs great wether the light stays on or off.
BTW, I usually bait my breath with beer.
If I may ask, what did the parts cost from mesicks?

 

[motorhead]

I would also suspect that you have some or all the glow plugs burned out. I know from working on Mercedes diesels that use a similar glow plug control that they are "LOAD" sensitive. So if you have lose a glow plug or two, the light on the dash will go off quickly or not show up at all. Pull them and manually check them with a 12 volt battery.

 

[L3010HST]

If I may ask, what did the parts cost from mesicks?

Timer (sit down for his one) $93.99
Controller $64.18
Relay $27.53

My local Dealer couldn't beat these prices.

 

[Russell King]

All those looked original and very dirty when I replaced them.

Since the glow plugs were dirty the new ones may not be getting a good enough ground. If I remember the circuit, the path is basically battery to switch to glow plug to ground (at the threads of the glow plug).

Might be a good thing to remove and clean the threaded area of the glow plugs to ensure a good ground. I guess you could run a ground wire from each glow plug base to the battery ground (verify that I remember the circuit correctly!) to see if that fixes it.

 

[Stubbyie]

Considerations:

A thread on here has discussed cleaning the glow plug connective circuit---in that case a heavy flat cable almost like a metal plate. Corrosion was found at 'top' of GPs that when cleaned reestablished electrical conductivity and allowed the GP to function, therby correctly illuminating the dash lamps.

There's apparently a tiny nut involved at each GP. Don't lose it. Consider reattaching using a tiny smear of conductive thread sealant or No-Korode like used on aluminum wiring.

If you pull the GP to benchtest, clamp gently in vise or pliers. Gets RED HOT fast. Don't get burned or set bench rags afire.

You've got a lot of followers on this one: please post back how resolved and what was found.

 

[L3010HST]

I'll start with the glow plug tests and connections first then go backward with the old original dirty relay, controller and timer one at a time if GP's test good.

Thanks for the help. I won't get back to my 3010 until near end of this month to further trouble shoot. I'll definitely report my findings when I do, good, bad or ugly.

In the mean-time, if anyone has had similar issue I'm experiencing I'm all ears to the actual single cause.

Cheers

 

[L3010HST]

BUMP....

Update:
GP's are good, strong and HOT. I replaced the GP system old Timer, Controller and Relay. Back to square one with GP light on all the time and unit fires right up as should stone cold.

After juggling around those three components, found it to be the new controller that then only allows the GP and light to activate only a couple seconds then deactivates on cold start and doesn't fire right up as should. Seems to be a defective new controller is my best educated guess.

Next step is to get a new controller and see if that permanently gets the GP system to operate correctly on cold start-ups while not have the gp's on all the time (old controller) and/or not on long enough on cold starts (new controller).

I need to call Messick's and check the warranty on this defective part I bought from them.

Cheers

 

[cascade]

I'm having the same issues with the glow plug indicator on for about 2-3 seconds first try and then maybe one second per key on after that.
I've replaced parts one at a time and it comes back to the controller. I even replaced the temp/coolant sensor last and no change in the indicator time.
L3600 DT

 

[L3010HST]

Got off phone with Messicks. Service guy agrees it's the controller. I mentioned the controller also has a slight bulge in the casing. It shouldn't be like that per service tech. Should be getting a new controller soon. I'll report back whether that fixes the issue or not.

Thanks cascade. Your situation is exactly like mine with this defective controller I received. Let us know if your new controller is the fix before I receive my replacement and get back to my L3010 up in Washington State.

 

[L3010HST]

Replacement Controller seems to have been the trick. Now the real test will be when those ambient temps get down in the 20-30's with those cold start-up's.

 

[Stubbyie]

Thanks for posting back and keeping us informed.

You refer to cold temps and allude to only intermittent use of the machine.

Assuming you have the time to do so before each use, consider installing a lower radiator hose heater and battery trickle charger aka maintainer.

We've made a practice of ALWAYS plugging in the maintainer (either on-board or with clips (to battery) or plug (into harness)) year 'round. We've got a lot of rolling stock and stationary gensets and pumps and for the lightly used stuff we've got 60-mo batteries going on 8- to 10-years still working. We attribute that long life to consistent use of the maintainers.

We use 45-F as an arbitrary setpoint based somewhat on experience and observation on when to use block heaters and lower radiator hose heaters. Beginning at 45-F we heat every engine at least two hours before cranking, while also having the battery maintainer running.

If we have to move early we use an overnight timer on the heater. In the absolute coldest (~-10-F) we leave the block heater--and maintainer--on all the time just in case we have to go right now.

Used to have other color paint on place and years ago got in a bind during an icestorm. In that episode finally got a big lawnmower to start and gradually progressed upward in size and battery capacity until got a big green PoS to light so go could move downed trees from county road. Took time I was running out of. Using current system, no further problems. Of course changing to Orange helped a lot too.

Have tried magnetic oil pan heaters but once found a ring of burned sludge in pan of old Ford truck after using such a heater for years. Freeze-plug insert type heaters work well but lower radiator hose are easier to hook up most times and work just as well. Never tried a dipstick type heater.

We've had better luck with Katz 'red tube' hose heaters than the lower wattage aluminum baseball-size clump-type competitive hose heaters. Both are commonly available at parts houses.

Please continue posting as your adventures unfold.

 

[L3010HST]

Thanks Stubbyie for all that info! Much appreciated!!

You are correct in assuming intermittent use. She clicks off the hours more-so in the summer months than winter. However, winter months she 'must' fire up for snow removal purposes stat. Current ambient morning temps have been in the 50-60's with start ups firing right off on first attemps with new controller.

I keep a maintainer on the battery already, being nothing worse than a no or slow cranking situation when you need to get going from sitting dormant.

I'll check into that Katz 'red tube' hose heater. Sounds like the way to from your experience. Ambient winter temps in PNW area where I'm at get down to low 20's and only makes sense to have a heater for easier/faster start ups.

It'll be interesting to see how long the controller keeps those GP's on for start up in winter temps down the road.

 

[Stubbyie]

Engine heaters, continued.

I misspelled in my prior post:

Look up "Kats" as part of "5 Star Manufacturing".

The heaters we use fit the lower radiator hose and cost (memory here) something like $25-$30 each. I just keep the power cord cable-tied into a loop behind the radiator with the plug sticking out to use with an extension cord.

In our coldest weather, 2-hrs is about the minimum to preheat; due to heat transfer all that cast iron has to get warmed up in addition to coolant.

I try to pay attention to make sure everything is still working. Last winter at 0-F with the heater and maintainer both running all night a relatively new good compression 40-hp Kubota fired right up with no smoke; the glow plug lamp snapped off about as fast as I turned the key and she lit with not even the slightest hesitation.

If you leave it sit in bad cold consider also using fuel admixture to prevent gelling and (in summer especially) micobial growth. Other reports on this site report biological growth is black slime-like. We use Stanadyne as recommended by Bosch that makes most injectors and associated parts.

If you've got a decompression lever/pull try spinning the engine up to speed with the starter (decomp 'open') then 'close' the decomp while still spinning; should light immediately. Reduces cold weather wear and tear on engine and gets oiil distributed ahead of firing.

Good luck.

 

[L3010HST]

Kats not Katz on heater. Noted and thanks again.

Heard of Stanadyne, thanks.

I've been using a Soy-Based Fuel Conditioner from Renewable Lubricants called Bio-Power. Diesel these days is extremely 'dry' with only 15 ppm Sulfur. My 97' 7.3L Power Stroke and 80's Orange was designed using the good ole 5000 ppm sulfur blend. The fuel conditioner gives the lubricity those pre 2006/2007 engines need to last their expected long useful life. Something to consider for all early Orange engine owners. Their winter fuel conditioner blend is an anti-gel as well.

Food for thought

 

[dag1450]

I know this is an old thread but im having the same trouble L3010HST had with the indicator light going out after 1 or 2 seconds. Im thinking the controller/timer. Just wondering about how long should the light stay on and does this change with the outside temp. Im working on a L3710. Also if anyone know what the bottom fuse is for on the fuse block that would help me greatly as mine is missing and the contact broke out. I dont have a manual yet. Thanks Dave

 

[motorhead]

I know this is an old thread but im having the same trouble L3010HST had with the indicator light going out after 1 or 2 seconds. Im thinking the controller/timer. Just wondering about how long should the light stay on and does this change with the outside temp. Im working on a L3710. Also if anyone know what the bottom fuse is for on the fuse block that would help me greatly as mine is missing and the contact broke out. I dont have a manual yet. Thanks Dave

A lot of controllers are LOAD sensitive. If there is a faulty or open glow plug, the indicator light will go out faster. Yes, the controllers are usually temperature sensitive staying on longer the colder the ambient temperature is. Are you having trouble starting when cold? Check EACH glow plug separately.
A few things very important on an Indirect Injected Diesel, Good glow plugs, good compression and clean injectors. The compression issues, unless the rings are bad, are usually from tight valves.

 

[dag1450]

Thanks motorhead, I checked the GPs with my meter and all checked out ok and yes im having a hard time starting. Its acting like its 0 outside when its only 60. Now about the other (old age stuff) u mentioned....im sure i have it ALL as the tractor has over 3 thousand uncared for hours on it by the previous ownerDave