Adding remote hydraulics to B1400

[dannyboyski]

OK - that confirms the tank port is being used as a high pressure carry over to the 3pt. Not according to Hoyle but its been working so apparently that loader valve can handle elevated tank pressure.

You could simply replumb the tank hose from the loader valve to the pump port on the backhoe valve and run the tank port on the backhoe valve to the banjo port on the side of the 3pt. That would also subject the tank port on the backhoe valve to 3pt pressure but as long as you dont use the 3pt should not be an issue. Kubota is still doing that with their new hoes.

Dan

Thanks for this Hokie,

Pretty sure i understand what you are saying.

So when the backhoe is disconnected i just disconnect it and then reconnect the 2 loose hoses together.

cheers

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

The B1400 Being a grey market import to the UK is a nightmare to find manuals on. I think the B7200 is about as close to it as i can find, but it's not identical. Ive attached a copy of the Hydraulic system on the B7200. it appears to be very similar to mine albeit mine is NOT HST.
The loader was on when i got it. so i don't know how it was previously. View attachment 73077

I own a B7200DT and I am quite familiar with the hydraulics on it. The system is quite different from what you have but you could "upgrade" your loader hydraulic system to a B7200 like system without much difficulty. The only down side to that is you would need to replace the loader valve with one that has high pressure carry over at a cost of roughly $170 USD. These P40 valves are very popular in Europe and are starting to get a foothold here.

1x FLOATING 2 Spool Hydraulic Directional Control Valves Joystick 1xDA 40L 11gpm | eBay

It is used in hydraulic systems in agriculture, horticulture, forestry, construction and industry. Neutral position 0 (lever up), piston rod of the hydraulic cylinder is stationary - oil overflows. Working position 1 (lever up), the piston rod of the hydraulic cylinder slides out.

www.ebay.com

I have purchased from that seller before and I was happy with what I got. If you have to pay VAT it mat wind up costing you more.

Dan

 

[dannyboyski]

I own a B7200DT and I am quite familiar with the hydraulics on it. The system is quite different from what you have but you could "upgrade" your loader hydraulic system to a B7200 like system without much difficulty. The only down side to that is you would need to replace the loader valve with one that has high pressure carry over at a cost of roughly $170 USD. These P40 valves are very popular in Europe and are starting to get a foothold here.

1x FLOATING 2 Spool Hydraulic Directional Control Valves Joystick 1xDA 40L 11gpm | eBay

It is used in hydraulic systems in agriculture, horticulture, forestry, construction and industry. Neutral position 0 (lever up), piston rod of the hydraulic cylinder is stationary - oil overflows. Working position 1 (lever up), the piston rod of the hydraulic cylinder slides out.

www.ebay.com

I have purchased from that seller before and I was happy with what I got. If you have to pay VAT it mat wind up costing you more.

Dan

Firstly Hokie I really appreciate your help on this. I didn't realise my loader was tapped into the 3 point pressure line.

Is it fair to say that the 3pt is currently connected to the power beyond on my loader valve already then?

The hydraulics all seem to work fine at the moment. I'm pretty certain I can even work both the loader and 3 point at the same time, (albeit both slower)

If I can get a remote connection at the rear to the backhoe then that is really all I need. and I see no reason to upgrade it if it works.

what are the advantages of the valve you linked to?

Cheers

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Firstly Hokie I really appreciate your help on this. I didn't realise my loader was tapped into the 3 point pressure line.

Is it fair to say that the 3pt is currently connected to the power beyond on my loader valve already then?

The hydraulics all seem to work fine at the moment. I'm pretty certain I can even work both the loader and 3 point at the same time, (albeit both slower)

If I can get a remote connection at the rear to the backhoe then that is really all I need. and I see no reason to upgrade it if it works.

what are the advantages of the valve you linked to?

Cheers

Dan

Your loader valve does not have power beyond - it has a tank port which is designed to serve two purposes:

1. It provides a low pressure path direct to tank when the valve is in neutral. This is required in an open center system to unload the pump
2. It provides a low pressure path direct to tank for exhaust oil coming out of a cylinder when a spool is shifted.

A high pressure carry over port (power beyond) has two different purposes:

1. It provides a high pressure path to a down stream device like the 3pt. This path also unloads the pump when ALL of the valves in the sequence are in neutral.
2. It provides a separate low pressure path direct to tank for the exhaust oil coming from the cylinders.

When you use the tank port for high pressure carry over a number of undesirable things happen:

1. It subjects the inlet relief to back pressure from a down stream cylinder. This prevents the relief from opening and essentially eliminates it from the circuit.
2. It puts the upstream cylinders in series with down stream cylinders, This creates a see-saw effect with the loads. It also subjects upstream cylinders to over pressurization via a hydraulic phenomenon called pressure intensification. It can result in rod end cylinder pressures high enough to blow out a gland nut or rupture a cylinder. Inlet pressure relief valves cannot protect from these pressures.
3. Seals in the valve may not be able to withstand the reverse pressures and fail.

So that's the engineering story. You currently have a system that is violating those rules but operating without issues. If it were me I would either add the hoe to the circuit as is or replace the loader valve with one that has a power beyond circuit. I would avoid that tipping valve like the plague - it is the least desirable of the possible configurations.

Dan

 

[dannyboyski]

Your loader valve does not have power beyond - it has a tank port which is designed to serve two purposes:

1. It provides a low pressure path direct to tank when the valve is in neutral. This is required in an open center system to unload the pump
2. It provides a low pressure path direct to tank for exhaust oil coming out of a cylinder when a spool is shifted.

A high pressure carry over port (power beyond) has two different purposes:

1. It provides a high pressure path to a down stream device like the 3pt. This path also unloads the pump when ALL of the valves in the sequence are in neutral.
2. It provides a separate low pressure path direct to tank for the exhaust oil coming from the cylinders.

When you use the tank port for high pressure carry over a number of undesirable things happen:

1. It subjects the inlet relief to back pressure from a down stream cylinder. This prevents the relief from opening and essentially eliminates it from the circuit.
2. It puts the upstream cylinders in series with down stream cylinders, This creates a see-saw effect with the loads. It also subjects upstream cylinders to over pressurization via a hydraulic phenomenon called pressure intensification. It can result in rod end cylinder pressures high enough to blow out a gland nut or rupture a cylinder. Inlet pressure relief valves cannot protect from these pressures.
3. Seals in the valve may not be able to withstand the reverse pressures and fail.

So that's the engineering story. You currently have a system that is violating those rules but operating without issues. If it were me I would either add the hoe to the circuit as is or replace the loader valve with one that has a power beyond circuit. I would avoid that tipping valve like the plague - it is the least desirable of the possible configurations.

Dan

Thanks for that. Does this mean my 3 point currently isn't getting full power?

This explains (I think) why my loader was raising slightly (v slowly) when I was picking up something heavy with my 3point the other week.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks for that. Does this mean my 3 point currently isn't getting full power?

This explains (I think) why my loader was raising slightly (v slowly) when I was picking up something heavy with my 3point the other week.

As long as the three point is in neutral you should get full power on the loader but yes the 3pt and loader cylinders are in series when shifted.

Dan