Adding remote hydraulics to B1400

[dannyboyski]

Hi all,

I have a little (new to me ) B1400 with loader.

I'm investigating adding remote hydraulics at the rear for a future project. (small frame mounted backhoe)

The backhoe I have purchased is currently 3 pt mount. But im going to fabricate a frame mount. Ditching the pto pump and using the tractors hydraulic supply will allow me to get the thing mounted much closer to the rear wheels, provided the tractor pump has enough flow.

It appears from some basic research that for the flow to the rear remote I need to tap into the Power beyond on the loader spool valve. Can anyone confirm that what I've highlighted in the pic is the power beyond plug. I'm pretty sure it must be. I can't find any documentation online for this spool valve.

Then I presume I need some sort of double banjo bolt arrangement on the return. (also pictured and highlighted)

As I understand it the hydraulic connector I have under the seat (ive not used it yet) is for a tipping trailer, and only activates on the 3pt lift lever. (if anyone can confirm this it might save me a few £ of pipe.)

IF anyone can offer any words of wisdom for this and whether it should have enough flow to keep a small backhoe happy. (I'm not after mega performance, just the ability to connect it up and occasionally dig a few small trenches)

Many thanks

Dan

 

[Dave_eng]

Your model of Kubota is not one found in North America but not surprising since you are in the UK.

Is your loader Kubota Orange from the factory and does it have a model number on it like LA402..........

A loader valve with power beyond will have 7 hoses. I count 6 on yours.

The plug you have identified might just be an optional location for the hose where I have drawn the yellow line.

It is possible that an internal plug could be fitted to your valve but finding the proper one would be a challenge. A power beyond fitting usually provides a place for a hose to connect to while at the same time making changes to the valves internals.
Here are two examples:

Is there a manufacturer's name cast into the valve body?

Are there any identifying letters cast into the valve body where the rubber hoses connect?

If you can identify the pressure hose feeding the loader valve and then follow that hose to where it connects into the tractor hydraulics and post a picture of the hydraulic block I expect is there it would help us understand your tractor's system.

Your understanding of the rear hydraulic situation for single acting dump trailers etc is correct.

I see two red handled valves at the rear of your tractor. Do either of them affect the loader operation.

Dave

 

[dannyboyski]

Your model of Kubota is not one found in North America but not surprising since you are in the UK.

Is your loader Kubota Orange from the factory and does it have a model number on it like LA402..........

A loader valve with power beyond will have 7 hoses. I count 6 on yours.

The plug you have identified might just be an optional location for the hose where I have drawn the yellow line.
View attachment 72695

It is possible that an internal plug could be fitted to your valve but finding the proper one would be a challenge. A power beyond fitting usually provides a place for a hose to connect to while at the same time making changes to the valves internals.
Here are two examples:
View attachment 72696

Is there a manufacturer's name cast into the valve body?

Are there any identifying letters cast into the valve body where the rubber hoses connect?

If you can identify the pressure hose feeding the loader valve and then follow that hose to where it connects into the tractor hydraulics and post a picture of the hydraulic block I expect is there it would help us understand your tractor's system.

Your understanding of the rear hydraulic situation for single acting dump trailers etc is correct.

I see two red handled valves at the rear of your tractor. Do either of them affect the loader operation.

Dave

Thanks for taking the time to reply Dave

My loader is not Kubota OEM unfortunately. It is a Hymari FRKU2, (i think they've gone bust or been bought out) as i can't find any information on it. the same loader is still sold in china, and I've messaged them to enquire about power beyond but have not had a reply yet. (https://www.lefa-cz.com/product/Front-loader.html)

I have taken the control valve off and checked for identifying marks, I've googled these and can't make anything of them.

 

[dannyboyski]

 

[dannyboyski]

 

[dannyboyski]

 

[dannyboyski]

 

[dannyboyski]

Ive attached a few pics of the control valve, if anyone can help identify if this has or could have power beyond i would be very grateful.

 

[TheOldHokie]

View attachment 73042

The port in this picture is part of the tank return core in the valve. The ports on your valve are well labeled and if this port could be converted to high pressure carryover with a sleeve or plug I would expect to see a label on it and I do not. All I see is the T on the top so it appears to be just an alternate tank return location.

How is this valve connected to the tractor hydraulic system?

Dan

 

[PoTreeBoy]

i think you can safely install a backhoe without concerning yourself with a power beyond plug. I'll run through it and maybe Dave will concur.
Your loader valve has pressure and tank lines.
Remove the tank line from your loader, run a line from this valve port to your backhoe's pressure port, and run a hose from your backhoe's tank line to the tank hose you removed from the loader valve.
Dave has pointed out a couple of valve handles. It would be helpful if you could sketch out the entire hydraulic system and also show any pages in the Operator's Manual that mention any hydraulic operations. I suppose a WorkShop Manual is just a dream?
Does the tractor have 3 point hitch, and do those valves affect its operation?

 

[Dave_eng]

Years ago there was a real smart hydraulics gentleman on the tractorbynet forum named JJ.

One of the first lessons he taught me was the following:

If you need power beyond to perform more functions on an old tractor, buy a new valve (with an internal relief valve) to do these new functions and get this new valve with the power beyond feature.

Now install this new valve before your existing loader valve and use the new valve's power beyond capability to feed your existing loader valve.

In your case, the P line on your existing loader valve would become the supply or P for the new valve.

The power beyond on the new valve would go where the old P line used to connect on the loader valve so that the loader valve continues to have a supply of high pressure oil.

The new valve will need a Tank connection so its internal relief has a place to dump any excess pressure. This tank connection can just be Tee'd into the loader valves T line.

Hope this makes sense. Please ask if it is not clear.

Dave

 

[dannyboyski]

 

[dannyboyski]

 

[dannyboyski]

Ive just posted some photos showing the loader's pressure connection to the hydraulic pump. The loader valve tank return is shown in pic 2 on the thread. It has a red circle around it.

 

[TheOldHokie]

View attachment 73074

Thats the pump connection and I assume it is supplying pressure to the loader valve? Where does the tank return on the loader valve go? This is beginning to look like the tank port is being used for power beyond.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ive just posted some photos showing the loader's pressure connection to the hydraulic pump. The loader valve tank return is shown in pic 2 on the thread. It has a red circle around it.

I am not seeing the return connection?

Dan

 

[dannyboyski]

Years ago there was a real smart hydraulics gentleman on the tractorbynet forum named JJ.

One of the first lessons he taught me was the following:

If you need power beyond to perform more functions on an old tractor, buy a new valve (with an internal relief valve) to do these new functions and get this new valve with the power beyond feature.

Now install this new valve before your existing loader valve and use the new valve's power beyond capability to feed your existing loader valve.

In your case, the P line on your existing loader valve would become the supply or P for the new valve.

The power beyond on the new valve would go where the old P line used to connect on the loader valve so that the loader valve continues to have a supply of high pressure oil.

The new valve will need a Tank connection so its internal relief has a place to dump any excess pressure. This tank connection can just be Tee'd into the loader valves T line.

Hope this makes sense. Please ask if it is not clear.

Dave

Wise words Dave, the backhoe has its own valves. so I don't really need a valve function on the remote.

I am considering for simplicity to just pull the pressure side off the tipping trailer port. the 3 point will be off when the backhoe is on anyway. My understanding is I would need to engage the 3 point lift, then once the lift arms are at the top of the travel I should get full flow through the port without messing with the loader.

 

[dannyboyski]

I am not seeing the return connection?

Dan

Hi Hokie, thanks for helping.

The return goes Here!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Hi Hokie, thanks for helping.

The return goes Here!


View attachment 73076

OK - that confirms the tank port is being used as a high pressure carry over to the 3pt. Not according to Hoyle but its been working so apparently that loader valve can handle elevated tank pressure.

You could simply replumb the tank hose from the loader valve to the pump port on the backhoe valve and run the tank port on the backhoe valve to the banjo port on the side of the 3pt. That would also subject the tank port on the backhoe valve to 3pt pressure but as long as you dont use the 3pt should not be an issue. Kubota is still doing that with their new hoes.

Dan

 

[dannyboyski]

The B1400 Being a grey market import to the UK is a nightmare to find manuals on. I think the B7200 is about as close to it as i can find, but it's not identical. Ive attached a copy of the Hydraulic system on the B7200. it appears to be very similar to mine albeit mine is NOT HST.
The loader was on when i got it. so i don't know how it was previously.