L2501, slopes, and sanity-check

Bogs · Oct 11, 2019

I just sold my L3901 with beet-juiced R1 Ags. Lot of things happened at once leading to needing to sell.

I'm looking at getting an L2501 next year, and I'm thinking about R4 or R14T and have been debating whether the fill is needed or not with myself. Always a great idea.

I saw a recent thread about the L2501 and to fill or not. I didn't want to hijack that thread, plus they were talking about it being very flat.

I brush-cut about 6 acres, mostly slopes. Most of the 6 acres is between a 24 inch and 50 inch drop over an 8-foot run, which I think works-out to between 25% and 52% Grade, or 14° to 27.5° angles. Less than a half acre is remotely level.

The ags were effective on the L3901, but they were rough on the road and tended to dig four half-moons instead of climb if the slopes were too wet or too dry. I used the diff-lock a lot, and rarely had it out of 4wd unless the weather was fair, and I was doing road maintenance.

Does anyone have experience with slopes like that? Most tasks will be using a flail mower (Woodmaxx 62h), FEL work with bucket and grapple, and about 3/4 mile of gravel-road/snow maintenance with either a scrape-blade or box-blade, but I've been thinking of getting a "land-leveler". Wish it could level some slopes, especially the 52% butt-puckerers, and the one that's a little steeper than that, but I can't get a measure on because my bad knees won't take it.

The reason I mentioned R4 or R14T is that I had the problem with the R1 digging half-moons that I have to fill-in and tamp, or risk more exciting surprises when its time to cut again.

The R4 is wider, heavier, can hold more fill than the R1, but do I need the fill with a 750 (with PTO shaft) flail on the back, and the FEL? Does the R4 have enough traction to handle slopes like that?

The R14T seems to fit the R4 rim sizes on the L series, and the tire sizes seem to match the R4's on the Titan Tire site. Messick's review on them seems to indicate that they're more aggressive than the R4, less than the R1, and better on hard-pack, and for loader work. The Ags felt like they were those hop-along balloons when working with the FEL. So they seem to be a good compromise. But again, do they really need fill for the slopes with the weight of the flail and FEL?

I haven't been able to get an answer from the dealer I bought the L3901 from other than I should buy the same exact thing, or maybe the MX4800. The other dealer was just not responsive. Neither makes me feel confident in dropping that cash again.

I was leaning towards Ventrac, but I'm having a hard time justifying the cost, and the lack of ability to run a flail. The Tough cut seems to give a nice cut, but the flail (blades not hammers) give a nicer cut and mulch better to my eye. That, and the L3901 really impressed me for the 3 years or so I had it. It's just out of my price range, and I can't go that long without being able to brush-cut, or I'll have to start over, not to mention the driveway gets overrun with woody bramble-thorns that scratch-up the wife's car. She didn't like my suggestion of just line-x or bulletliner instead of paint. I've considered used, but the few I looked at locally seem to be beat to hell and back, and I feel like I'm buying someone else's problems. So I'm mostly looking at new.

So, I guess to sum-up:

With steep hills, to fill or not to fill.

Ags again since they worked, or look at the R4/R14T to have a little less rototillerless tilling, maybe?

Do you think the L2501 (DT most likely) has enough grunt to handle those grades with a flail?

Thanks!

eserv · Oct 11, 2019

Bogs said:
I just sold my L3901 with beet-juiced R1 Ags. Lot of things happened at once leading to needing to sell.

I'm looking at getting an L2501 next year, and I'm thinking about R4 or R14T and have been debating whether the fill is needed or not with myself. Always a great idea. I saw a recent thread about the L2501 and to fill or not. I didn't want to hijack that thread, plus they were talking about it being very flat.

I brush-cut about 6 acres, mostly slopes. Most of the 6 acres is between a 24 inch and 50 inch drop over an 8-foot run, which I think works-out to between 25% and 52% Grade, or 14° to 27.5° angles. Less than a half acre is remotely level.

The ags were effective on the L3901, but they were rough on the road and tended to dig four half-moons instead of climb if the slopes were too wet or too dry. I used the diff-lock a lot, and rarely had it out of 4wd unless the weather was fair, and I was doing road maintenance.

Does anyone have experience with slopes like that? Most tasks will be using a flail mower (Woodmaxx 62h), FEL work with bucket and grapple, and about 3/4 mile of gravel-road/snow maintenance with either a scrape-blade or box-blade, but I've been thinking of getting a "land-leveler". Wish it could level some slopes, especially the 52% butt-puckerers, and the one that's a little steeper than that, but I can't get a measure on because my bad knees won't take it.

The reason I mentioned R4 or R14T is that I had the problem with the R1 digging half-moons that I have to fill-in and tamp, or risk more exciting surprises when its time to cut again.

The R4 is wider, heavier, can hold more fill than the R1, but do I need the fill with a 750 (with PTO shaft) flail on the back, and the FEL? Does the R4 have enough traction to handle slopes like that?

The R14T seems to fit the R4 rim sizes on the L series, and the tire sizes seem to match the R4's on the Titan Tire site. Messick's review on them seems to indicate that they're more aggressive than the R4, less than the R1, and better on hard-pack, and for loader work. The Ags felt like they were those hop-along balloons when working with the FEL. So they seem to be a good compromise. But again, do they really need fill for the slopes with the weight of the flail and FEL?

I haven't been able to get an answer from the dealer I bought the L3901 from other than I should buy the same exact thing, or maybe the MX4800. The other dealer was just not responsive. Neither makes me feel confident in dropping that cash again.

I was leaning towards Ventrac, but I'm having a hard time justifying the cost, and the lack of ability to run a flail. The Tough cut seems to give a nice cut, but the flail (blades not hammers) give a nicer cut and mulch better to my eye. That, and the L3901 really impressed me for the 3 years or so I had it. It's just out of my price range, and I can't go that long without being able to brush-cut, or I'll have to start over, not to mention the driveway gets overrun with woody bramble-thorns that scratch-up the wife's car. She didn't like my suggestion of just line-x or bulletliner instead of paint. I've considered used, but the few I looked at locally seem to be beat to hell and back, and I feel like I'm buying someone else's problems. So I'm mostly looking at new.

So, I guess to sum-up:

With steep hills, to fill or not to fill.

Ags again since they worked, or look at the R4/R14T to have a little less rototillerless tilling, maybe?

Do you think the L2501 (DT most likely) has enough grunt to handle those grades with a flail?

Thanks!

You will likely be very disappointed with a L2501 after owning a L3901 powerwise.

Roadworthy · Oct 11, 2019

You probably have to answer your own questions. I thought I'd get the L3901 until I learned it had a diesel particulate filter. That - not the price difference - sold me on the L2501. I don't have a flail mower, mine is a five foot King Kutter rotary mower. I do pull it up hills similar to yours but perhaps my dirt is packed more solid. I run unweighted ag tires with no issues. Power is not an issue. I to have to throw it into four wheel drive for part of the mowing but it doesn't stay there - if I don't need it I revert to kicking it back out. Of course you could try to wangle another L3901 on an end of the month or end of the year inventory reduction.

PaulL · Oct 12, 2019

The L2501 will do the job, sounds like you already know you will need to go slower and/or use smaller implements. If you don't have the money for more, then there's your option.

To me filling the wheels makes sense if:

you have a lot of weight on the FEL, and don't want to use an implement or ballast box to ballast the rear. I didn't see that mentioned
you're sideways on hills, and so need it for stability. On the kind of slopes you're talking about, I imagine you go up and down, not side to side
you need the weight for traction. Sounds like you'd have a heavy cutter on back most of the time, so that should be enough weight to give traction

I'd be tempted to look at spacers before filling. I'm guessing you have to turn at the top of the slope, and that could be butt puckering without something more than standard. The nice thing about filling is that you can do it later, it doesn't have to be done when you initially buy. So you can try without, and see if it's a problem or not.

mdhughes · Oct 12, 2019

I would say if you had problems on getting up the hills with R1s, you will have more problems with the R4s. Don't know how the R14s would be, I didn't know they were offering them on the L2501 now.

Cathy Liebchen · Oct 12, 2019

The L2501 won’t pull hills very well. MX much more stable than an L.

Most of that sounds too steep to fool with trying to mow it. You could just let it grow up and run a mulcher on it every 5 years

BAP · Oct 12, 2019

A small tractor will handle the slopes just as well as a big tractor as long as you are using implements sized for the small tractor. OP, you mentioned AG tires riding rough going down the road and not pulling well on hills. I would hazard a guess that you had to much air pressure in the tires. Too much air pressure and AG tires will ride rough on hard surfaces and will not pull as well as they are capable of.

Roadworthy · Oct 12, 2019

To improve side to side stability with the L2501 the wheels used with ag tires offer three ( I think it's three ) different positions for width. The tire center is separate from the rim holding the tire and the adjustment is made at their junction. This could preclude the need for wheel spacers.

Bogs · Oct 12, 2019

PaulL said:
The L2501 will do the job, sounds like you already know you will need to go slower and/or use smaller implements. If you don't have the money for more, then there's your option.

I grew up on 2wd flat-land tractors in the 70s and 80s. The farm was always struggling, so the tractors always seemed under-powered. Just run slower and let the momentum build before hitting the heavy grass or brush.

To me filling the wheels makes sense if:

you have a lot of weight on the FEL, and don't want to use an implement or ballast box to ballast the rear. I didn't see that mentioned

you're sideways on hills, and so need it for stability. On the kind of slopes you're talking about, I imagine you go up and down, not side to side

you need the weight for traction. Sounds like you'd have a heavy cutter on back most of the time, so that should be enough weight to give traction

I'd be tempted to look at spacers before filling. I'm guessing you have to turn at the top of the slope, and that could be butt puckering without something more than standard. The nice thing about filling is that you can do it later, it doesn't have to be done when you initially buy. So you can try without, and see if it's a problem or not.

Working the FEL on a slope, I always had the rotary cutter (BH-15 five-foot) on for counter-weight. On the flat sections closer to the house, I'd usually leave it off to get around the crap people always seem to think is a good idea to clutter yards with.

I had the spacers, and flipped rim inners to space the tires as wide as I could. Plan to do that much, at least, regardless. And right, On the less steep slopes, always facing up or down the grade. I have to be careful at the bottom, making the turn to not tip into a big drainage gully. I need to figure how to re-grade some of it at some point. On the other 2.5 acres, it was only doable backing all the way up, carefully shifting the wheels at the top, and making the second cut facing down the slope. Going up most of it, even with the FEL, felt like I was at that tipping point before the front tires come off the ground. They lifted briefly the one time I did it without the FEL. Reflex kicked the clutch, and it settled. Switched to backing up only. Also, the R1/Ags seemed to slip and dig less going backwards.

That's what I was thinking. The weight of the implement instead of rimguard/beet-juice. I've been checking videos of guys doing a lot of work with their 25 and 26HP sub-compacts. I was considering something like the B2650 (Not the Subcompact B2601) since the engine would have less tractor weight to lug, and all that, but with the DT, I could just put it in reverse, and hold the diff-lock as I backed-up the slopes. With the HST, the diff-lock and reverse pedal are on opposite sides. Seems like it'd be less than ideal trying to keep the diff pressed while trying to control the hydro pedal without mashing it into the floor too, while turning to look to see where I'm going, and if gophers/rabbits/groundhogs made me any new surprises, or if I was lazy and forgot to fill a tire dip. If it were gear-drive/DT then maybe, but their replacements as LX seem to be HST only still unless I missed something. I do like the station better on the Big B series. Just not the HST which my old-fashioned self still finds weird.

Bogs · Oct 12, 2019

mdhughes said:
I would say if you had problems on getting up the hills with R1s, you will have more problems with the R4s. Don't know how the R14s would be, I didn't know they were offering them on the L2501 now.

I keep hearing that, but that's why I lead with the question of anyone having experience with R4s on slopes. I've heard that they have no traction, I've heard that they have great traction. They're better empty because they regain some conformity like airing-down, and that they're only great when they're filled because the weight helps the tread bite. Then I've heard that they're great if you use terra-straps or chains, but when pressing for details, they're always talking about in the mud or ice. With the Ags, I couldn't handle a bit over half the slopes when too wet or too dry. Clay and some sort of shale, mostly.

I'm a flat-lander. All I know is Ags in sugar-sand, and Louisiana slop. I'm curious because of the Messick's tests. I haven't seen many other "real-world" tire traction tests, so I figured I'd hit-up the forum I've been lurking on for a while.

R14T: The sizes look the same. The question is if I can get the dealer to order them or if I need to, and take them to the dealer and ask them to mount 'em.

https://www.titan-intl.com/Tires/R14T
Front: https://www.titan-intl.com/Tires/R14T?product=R4T3Y7GE
Rear: https://www.titan-intl.com/Tires/R14T?product=R4T373GE

L2501:
FRONT - 27x8.50-15 R4 Titan Trac Loader TL
REAR - 15-19.5 R4 Titan Trac Loader 3.6"offset

Bogs · Oct 12, 2019

Roadworthy said:
You probably have to answer your own questions. I thought I'd get the L3901 until I learned it had a diesel particulate filter. That - not the price difference - sold me on the L2501. I don't have a flail mower, mine is a five foot King Kutter rotary mower. I do pull it up hills similar to yours but perhaps my dirt is packed more solid. I run unweighted ag tires with no issues. Power is not an issue. I to have to throw it into four wheel drive for part of the mowing but it doesn't stay there - if I don't need it I revert to kicking it back out. Of course you could try to wangle another L3901 on an end of the month or end of the year inventory reduction.

I was considering that, but the local dealers don't seem to have inventory reductions that I've seen. I'll keep a closer eye out. When I bought it, it was $17,000 for the tractor itself. Now, the tractor alone, they're quoting me basically the same as the Kubota website, about $21,000 which is what I paid for it with the loader, minus the bush-hog bh-15 and landscape rake.

As for the DPF, in the 3 years of having owned an L3901, I had no issues with it. I didn't run it at low RPMs much, usually at PTO speed. Only went into regen a couple times a year, usually when I was doing a lot of slower loader work, or dragging the borrowed box-blade for a while. Easy to override, finish what I was doing, and go grab a sandwich while it did its thing.

Bogs · Oct 12, 2019

BAP said:
A small tractor will handle the slopes just as well as a big tractor as long as you are using implements sized for the small tractor. OP, you mentioned AG tires riding rough going down the road and not pulling well on hills. I would hazard a guess that you had to much air pressure in the tires. Too much air pressure and AG tires will ride rough on hard surfaces and will not pull as well as they are capable of.

True, sizing implements to the tractor. The biggest problem with the smaller tractors is that they're HST. I use diff-lock almost constantly when going up half the hills. I don't know how well I could mash the diff-lock with my left, and feather the right heel while twisting to look behind/above me for surprises.

I do prefer the station layout on the B series (baby-B and Big-B). The move from B2650 to LX ####, I'll keep an eye on because of that. I won't have the funds to buy anything until May/June, so it's going to be a rough winter.

Do you run that 2920 on steep hills? I've looked to find videos of people running Compact L and Big-B on steep hills, but generally only see the L on them, and usually the 3301/3901. I think I remember seeing a BX on a pretty steep hill like I deal with, but it was less than a quarter-acre, and only seemed to be about a 20-foot rise. How does the HST handle the prolonged loads of about 3-4 hours?

The Woodmaxx flail I'm planning to get for the L, is 62 inches and requires 20hp PTO which is right at the L2501's "20.5". They do have a 54 inch that requires 18. 62 is my plan just because it's closest in size to what I had on the L, and it would be heavy enough for ballast when needed.

The "rough on the road" meant that they were rough on the road itself. With fill, I kept the rear tires between 25 and 28psi. It gave a nice contact patch compared to topping them up to 30 or 31 whatever the manual said. The ride was fine. When working with the loader, I'd top-up the front tires, but they'd still squish and bounce like crazy. I experimented with the tire pressures, but over 30, and the front was rock-hard on the way back unloaded, but still squishy and wobbly when filling the bucket. I ran some skid steers in the 90s, but other than that, this was my first 4wd tractor in the 40 years since I drove my first, and my first tractor with an FEL. I love-hate the FEL. Don't know how I got along without one on the farm growing up.

Everyone I talked to said for the loader work I was doing, I needed R4. They also say I need Ag for the hills. They don't seem to want to buy me a second tractor with the opposite tires or even just a second set of tires I can unbolt and swap back and forth.

That's why I'm trying to find real-world experience with the different tires, and since you mentioned it, tractors on steep slopes like I described in the initial post. The guy I sold the tractor to mowed one of the slopes as a favor, after I sold it to him. He flat-out refused to mow the other. Didn't want to let me borrow it back either despite assuring him I mowed them regularly with it.

Bogs · Oct 12, 2019

Cathy Liebchen said:
The L2501 won’t pull hills very well. MX much more stable than an L.

Most of that sounds too steep to fool with trying to mow it. You could just let it grow up and run a mulcher on it every 5 years

Thanks! It more than sounds too steep to fool with. I wanted at least 5 acres. My wife wanted "a view". We got a bit over 6 acres, and her view but it's too steep to do the tater and sweet tater farm I wanted, and any critters we get are going to have one pair of legs shorter than the other.

My niece and nephews like to run around on the slopes and lose their minds, so I have to keep the thorny brambles at bay. I also like hobbling up and down them, myself. I'd get a bunch of goats, but I can't figure-out how to get rid of all the ferns that keep popping-up that I was warned to get rid of before getting any.

Oh, I'm sure the MX is much more stable. I drool over them. The front tires/rims especially seem more solid and "planted". They're just considerably north of my budget, and my mechanical skills are limited along with a degenerative disorder that limits the physical stuff I can do. That makes me partial to buying new rather than looking for a good used model. If I could talk my wife into holding-off for another year, I'd try for the MX48. My problem with the dealers I talked to is that they only tried to upsell me, and wouldn't answer any questions about slopes other than saying I needed at least the MX (upsell again), and when I explained that I mowed it with no real problems (other than only backing up the steeper slopes) with the L3901, they said get that, and wouldn't entertain the other models. Not a great way to build trust.

When you say "The L2501" do you mean HST or DT? Some people say the 2501 won't have an issue, others say it would, but I don't know who has experience with what. A lot of it comes down to who do I listen to when I don't know what they know or if they can throw a video up somewhere showing this or that combination failing or succeeding on something. Not trying to be insulting or condescending. It's just hard to separate opinion from experience.

I'm not married to the L series. I did have one, and I'm partial to it because of familiarity. But I had one model. For a lot of what I did, it seemed like "too much tractor" despite the adage of "you can't have too much tractor". Probably 80% of the year, it's been an overgrown mower/bush-hogger. The remainder is all of the other chores. I like the station on the B series (big-B and baby-B). They had a more comfortable layout. The MX station looks essentially like the L to me from what little I've seen. I didn't get any seat time with one in person. I saw it once, then when I went back, it was sold.

Thanks for the response. I don't mean to sound like a pr*ck, but I always think I do, no matter what I'm saying.

Bogs · Oct 12, 2019

Roadworthy said:
To improve side to side stability with the L2501 the wheels used with ag tires offer three ( I think it's three ) different positions for width. The tire center is separate from the rim holding the tire and the adjustment is made at their junction. This could preclude the need for wheel spacers.

The Ag rims have two or three positions. I had mine at the widest, and spacers. I still wouldn't take it across the steeper slopes.

Even so, on the milder slopes, I've had it on 3 wheels more often than I should, mostly at the bottom turnaround in one section that leads to a different slope I have to go through to access.

The design is really good in my opinion. If the L3901 were still $17,000 new, I wouldn't be asking about the L2501. It's gone up $4,000 and change since I bought it.

Mostly, I'm looking for someone with experience with R4 or the new R14T on steep slopes. If I have to go with the R1 again, I will, but they aren't ideal, especially working around the house. They just chew through our yard like a buzz-saw, it seems.

PaulL · Oct 12, 2019

If you're worried about traction, I'd get R1/Ag tyres. The R4 are a compromise, the R1 will always bite better. They have more traction one way than the other, so depending on which way round they are they either stop well or drive well. That may impact why they went better for you in reverse.

I believe the L2501 is the exact same chassis as the L3901. So if you were happy with the stability of the L3901, then the L2501 should be identical, just with less power. You're getting more tractor for your dollar with an L, the B has lots of features that you might not use (for example, the mid PTO).

I'd look hard at HST. Up hills I'd have thought they'd give a lot more flexibility than a gear transmission. I know they're different so there's a learning curve, but it might be worth it. Of course, the counterpoint is that you lose a bit of PTO power, and you'll already be down on power with a 26HP machine.

You may find a dealer who'll lend you one to try out. That's the only way to be sure.

Bogs · Oct 13, 2019

PaulL said:
If you're worried about traction, I'd get R1/Ag tyres. The R4 are a compromise, the R1 will always bite better. They have more traction one way than the other, so depending on which way round they are they either stop well or drive well. That may impact why they went better for you in reverse.

I believe the L2501 is the exact same chassis as the L3901. So if you were happy with the stability of the L3901, then the L2501 should be identical, just with less power. You're getting more tractor for your dollar with an L, the B has lots of features that you might not use (for example, the mid PTO).

I'd look hard at HST. Up hills I'd have thought they'd give a lot more flexibility than a gear transmission. I know they're different so there's a learning curve, but it might be worth it. Of course, the counterpoint is that you lose a bit of PTO power, and you'll already be down on power with a 26HP machine.

You may find a dealer who'll lend you one to try out. That's the only way to be sure.

Well, the truck engine died towing the tractor up and down the hills around here, so I'm a little gun-shy about towing a tractor much until I can replace the 1500 with an older 12v or 24v cummins. Budget fun.

I've looked hard at HST. Driven them a lot on flat. I don't have flat, and the one thing both dealers agree on is in this area, with the slopes I described, don't get HST. With every interaction with them, I'm trusting them a little less, so . . . maybe. The one L3310 HST I tried-out on their flat lots was what I described, trying to control the right heel with care while mashing the hell out of the diff-lock with my left heel. I've tested several on lots, and they all have to be mashed as hard as the one under the right heel on the L3901DT I had. I could rig-up a clamp that I could bolt to hold it down, but I only use it on the steeper slopes. I don't like the idea of doing that, though. It would remove the stress of mashing the hell out of my left heel while feathering my right, leaving me to be able to control the right and brace with my left as I twist to look behind. If you have a 52%/27.5 degree grade/slope, try it out backing up while twisting and holding the twist to see between the 3pt and deck and behind the deck. I wish there were an e-locker or vacuum locker that I could engage/disengage with a toggle, but these are the budget-line tractors.

I understand the difference between R1/R3/R4 tires. I've been driving (much older) tractors since the 70s, but almost completely on the flat or marshy/slime. I had R1s in north Florida sugar sand, and on the L3901, and I had R3 turfs on one, and R4 on the other tractors in Louisiana clay-slime/marsh. The narrow, aggressive R1 treads act like a dado stack on the slopes I have to tend to when it's either too wet or too dry. They worked, but with difficulty as described following. My questioning about the R4 and R14T is mostly due to their wider footprint. Also, it's because I have a degenerative connective tissue disorder that makes filling and tamping-down the 8-12 inch deep "half-moons" the R1s dig when I don't get it just right. A literal pain that'll take me out of action for the following few days.

I'm not trying to be dismissive or a pr*ck. I'm just looking for first-hand experience with steep slopes and the efficacy of R1/R4/R14T. I can "bench-race" all day long, but it doesn't apply to the "real-world". I love my CBX 1050, but I wouldn't street-race it against a 600 super-sport. It's way more comfortable than any super-sport, but there's no way I'd take it on the "tail of the dragon".

My budget is hard-capped, and my choices are the L2501, L3301 if I can get an incredible deal on it, or the big-B which will probably be the LX2610/3310 or whatever the numbers wind-up, if the price isn't inflated, which I expect them to be. The big-B/LX, I'm concerned about because they (LX) seem to be HST only like the B series. Given the choices, I'm favoring the L-series, mostly because I liked the L3901 so much.

Right, the chassis is basically the same between the smaller three L series. The B series has things I don't need, and has HST which I'm doubtful of, but it all comes down to price. I don't want to hold-off longer than I have to, because I spent 5 years, 3 of which with the tractor, getting this land into a semblance of control. I know how fast it can get out of control. I'm almost at the stage that I could use a finish mower for most of it, but the flail I plan to switch to should give me the middle-ground between the two implements, and the option to do some brush-cutting as a side-job. Which is another part of the reason for looking at less-destructive tread. That may be a matter of buying a second set of rims and R3 tires for them, and hooking a crank crane to the trailer to help mount and unmount for the conditions. Not ideal, but better than buying a second tractor for a side-hustle.

So yes, R4 and R14T are a compromise, but do they work well enough? Very little in life isn't a compromise in some way. We walk upright, and can see over things, but we expose our innards more than our great-ape cousins. They walk on their knuckles, don't worry about budgets and taxes, but they don't drive tractors and motorcycles. Compromises.

BAP · Oct 13, 2019

Bogs said:
True, sizing implements to the tractor. The biggest problem with the smaller tractors is that they're HST. I use diff-lock almost constantly when going up half the hills. I don't know how well I could mash the diff-lock with my left, and feather the right heel while twisting to look behind/above me for surprises.

I do prefer the station layout on the B series (baby-B and Big-B). The move from B2650 to LX ####, I'll keep an eye on because of that. I won't have the funds to buy anything until May/June, so it's going to be a rough winter.

Do you run that 2920 on steep hills? I've looked to find videos of people running Compact L and Big-B on steep hills, but generally only see the L on them, and usually the 3301/3901. I think I remember seeing a BX on a pretty steep hill like I deal with, but it was less than a quarter-acre, and only seemed to be about a 20-foot rise. How does the HST handle the prolonged loads of about 3-4 hours?

The Woodmaxx flail I'm planning to get for the L, is 62 inches and requires 20hp PTO which is right at the L2501's "20.5". They do have a 54 inch that requires 18. 62 is my plan just because it's closest in size to what I had on the L, and it would be heavy enough for ballast when needed.

The "rough on the road" meant that they were rough on the road itself. With fill, I kept the rear tires between 25 and 28psi. It gave a nice contact patch compared to topping them up to 30 or 31 whatever the manual said. The ride was fine. When working with the loader, I'd top-up the front tires, but they'd still squish and bounce like crazy. I experimented with the tire pressures, but over 30, and the front was rock-hard on the way back unloaded, but still squishy and wobbly when filling the bucket. I ran some skid steers in the 90s, but other than that, this was my first 4wd tractor in the 40 years since I drove my first, and my first tractor with an FEL. I love-hate the FEL. Don't know how I got along without one on the farm growing up.

Everyone I talked to said for the loader work I was doing, I needed R4. They also say I need Ag for the hills. They don't seem to want to buy me a second tractor with the opposite tires or even just a second set of tires I can unbolt and swap back and forth. That's why I'm trying to find real-world experience with the different tires, and since you mentioned it, tractors on steep slopes like I described in the initial post. The guy I sold the tractor to mowed one of the slopes as a favor, after I sold it to him. He flat-out refused to mow the other. Didn't want to let me borrow it back either despite assuring him I mowed them regularly with it.

25-28 psi is way too much air pressure for maximum traction. 15-18psi is plenty. It allows a bigger, softer foot print for the tire to get maximum traction especially in a R1 tire. For even better traction, put on Radial tires and run about 12psi. Throw on a set of rear duals for more traction and stability. Another part of your problem may be with your mower. If you are running it as a ground contact mower, it is probably creating too much drag hindering your ability to climb hills. Keep your 3point hitch up a little and it will reduce drag and add weight for traction.

PaulL · Oct 13, 2019

Seems to me that a filled tyre will have less "give" than an unfilled tyre at any given PSI. When you push into a bump or similar, there's less volume of air to compress, so it will tighten more quickly. It seems to me that unfilled tyres, run at relatively low PSI, should give more traction for any given weight on the tractor.

Bogs · Oct 13, 2019

BAP said:
25-28 psi is way too much air pressure for maximum traction. 15-18psi is plenty. It allows a bigger, softer foot print for the tire to get maximum traction especially in a R1 tire. For even better traction, put on Radial tires and run about 12psi. Throw on a set of rear duals for more traction and stability. Another part of your problem may be with your mower. If you are running it as a ground contact mower, it is probably creating too much drag hindering your ability to climb hills. Keep your 3point hitch up a little and it will reduce drag and add weight for traction.

Dealer warned not to run lower than 25psi with the rimguard fill. The beetjuice could let the tire spin freely on the rim. That's what their mechanic told me anyway. I lowered the pressure to 25 to get the better contact. It wasn't a great improvement, but it was noticeable over the 30psi it was delivered with. At 25psi, I got noticeable deflection on the front sidewalls, usually the first tires to start digging-in, when I would turn at the bottom, and I've run under-inflated tires off the old ramcharger and 4-runner too many times back in the day to not be paranoid.

When backing up the hills, I kept the rear tire lightly touching the slope, and adjusted it over the inconsistencies. Not my first rodeo. Backed bush-hogs and other rotary cutters for decades, just flat, not sloped. Used the same concept.

Radials are great on the larger tractors. Didn't know they were an option on the semi-little L series. I'll keep that in mind when I get the new tractor. Sold the L3901 a few months ago.

Bogs · Oct 13, 2019

PaulL said:
Seems to me that a filled tyre will have less "give" than an unfilled tyre at any given PSI. When you push into a bump or similar, there's less volume of air to compress, so it will tighten more quickly. It seems to me that unfilled tyres, run at relatively low PSI, should give more traction for any given weight on the tractor.

Yep. That's the big debate on fill vs unfilled. Liquid generally doesn't compress, but the tires are only filled about 2/3 or 3/4, basically close to the top of the rim. The air pocket in the top of the tire gives the liquid room to press into. Not that the air is fully at the top when you're running it around the spinning tire. It is less supple, but it isn't like running around on over-inflated air. As BAP said, Radials are an option for low PSI. I haven't looked to see availability on radials for the L-series, yet. If you've ever spun a tire on a rim, that's not fun on mild off-roading. Less fun, I would imagine on a tractor with only a belt and a ROPS. Even so, the front wheels don't get fill, so they were straight air, and over 30psi, they were rocks, at 25psi, they were pogo sticks. At 25psi in the rear, with the fill, they felt more compliant than they did at 30, and I did dig-in less often. If it was too wet or too dry, I could still dig-in easily. Lowering to 25 did extend the range between the two "too" conditions.

Thanks for the response, but I'm looking for real-world data/experience and not theorizing.

L2501, slopes, and sanity-check

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