Whats up with my hydraulic crimps?

[Runs With Scissors]

Ok fellas, I have been beating my brains out trying to make my own hoses for this damn "Hydraulic Thumb"

When I originally made, installed the hoses, and ran it, the thumb would not move.

A few minutes of simple testing showed no fluid getting to the cylinder.

It took me all of 1 minute to figure out that I had "Way, way over-crimped" the fitting so that the fittings internal passage was blocked shut.

I have been messing with it for 2 days and can't stop crushing the inner part of the tube.

Now.........After some "internet research" I kinda-sorta understand about crimp specs and such, but since I have 100% Chineseium fittings, there are no specs to be found.

Then I decided to go to the local hydraulics shop, and bought some "good fittings"...... and at 8 bucks a piece, I commenced to crushing 50 dollars worth fittings, in "no time flat"..........

Yes, I have a cheap ass Vevor crimping machine, but I feel as though I am doing something "fundamentally wrong"



At least I have a mill to prove how F'd up I am....


Heres a "cut away" of the "best one so far"



Here is a pic of a "good one" that I bought from the hydraulics store, and it "appears" to be within the spec that he gave me......although I agree it does look a 'wee bit tapered"






Here is the cut-away of the "good one"



Any thoughts or ideas?


EDIT: I bought the "good ones" from a placed called "The Parker store" ....if that makes any difference

 

[Yooper]

Is it possible to limit the stroke on the crimper?

 

[Workerbee]

Your dies are obviously not correct. Either you have the wrong set in, or theyre mislabled. On a weatherhead machine the dies are made so that they can only go so far no matter how much pressure you use. I would think vevor would be similar.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hmm, are they Metric fittings and is the hose 1/4" ?
Is the hose 'double walled' or 'heavy duty' whatever the term is ?
The crimper does have to be adjusted for the fittings being used.

I just have hoses made from the place I buy hydraulics from, NO charge to make them.

 

[hedgerow]

You have found out like many folks I know you have to have hose, fitting , dies and crimper that match. Got a buddy that was always trying to make hoses that cheaper way and many a time it just doesn't work out. Some times you can get by mixing and matching but normally it doesn't work out long term. I have so many different hoses sizes on this farm I just buy premade when they will work and when they don't I just go and get a hose made. A good friend of mine in another state is a very large farmer and they make all there hoses and has over hundred grand of hose, fittings and equipment to make them. They also have two service trucks and three full time shop guys.

 

[#40Fan]

Your dies are obviously not correct. Either you have the wrong set in, or theyre mislabled. On a weatherhead machine the dies are made so that they can only go so far no matter how much pressure you use. I would think vevor would be similar.

I agree on the wrong dies.

I would run them in all the way without a fitting and take some measurements.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Do you know the difference between bubble crimp and full shell crimp fittings?

Dan

 

[Caden]

@Runs With Scissors , when I learned to make hydro hoses, I was tought to only use a fitting the same brand as the hose, as hose wall thickness was not a standard thing. Not sure if that's true, but I never had an issue matching up brands. Weatherhead for example.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Do you know the difference between bubble crimp and full shell crimp fittings?

Dan

No sir.

But, I just looked it up a few minutes ago, so I have a very, very rudimentary understanding.

I took my cut aways to the hydraulic shop, and although he said he has never seen a cut-away before, and does not know what his look like internally, he told me to put the fitting in the middle of the die......not on one end, like I was doing.

So I tried it.

The crimp came out pretty nice looking......I will post a pic when I get home, and probably do a "cut away", cause well.....I think it's cool

However, my "Testing method" was as follows:

I used a "number drill index" and a #28 (.1405) drill fit into the hole before crimping it in the middle of the die.

Then after I crimped in the middle, I could get a #30 (.1285) in the hole.

So although there was "slight deformation", it was not nearly as bad my original crimps.

Is it possible to limit the stroke on the crimper?

Yes sir....that is part "science" and part "art form" though. These cheap machines are pretty "bare bones", so right now I am doing some testing to see whats what.

Your dies are obviously not correct. Either you have the wrong set in, or theyre mislabled. On a weatherhead machine the dies are made so that they can only go so far no matter how much pressure you use. I would think vevor would be similar.

I have double checked them, and they seem to be correct......At least from what I can figure out.

@Runs With Scissors , when I learned to make hydro hoses, I was tought to only use a fitting the same brand as the hose, as hose wall thickness was not a standard thing. Not sure if that's true, but I never had an issue matching up brands. Weatherhead for example.

Yea, I didn't know there was such a wide variety of choices, so some further testing is in order.

hmm, are they Metric fittings and is the hose 1/4" ?
Is the hose 'double walled' or 'heavy duty' whatever the term is ?
The crimper does have to be adjusted for the fittings being used.

I just have hoses made from the place I buy hydraulics from, NO charge to make them.

My hose is "2 wire", so I am not sure exactly what that equates to. It claims to be rated to 5800 psi....

The cost of the hose(s) is a secondary consideration sir.

I like the convenience/freedom of working on a project when I want to.

For instance, if I am working on something @ O'dark thirty, on a Saturday morning, NOT having to wait until Monday morning, when they open, is a big plus for a guy like me.

I can my own beets, I make my own walleye rigs, I have painted my own cars, in short...................I am a DIY'er.....(admittedly, probably to a flaw though, so let's hope it stops before performing surgery )

 

[TheOldHokie]

No sir.

But, I just looked it up a few minutes ago, so I have a very, very rudimentary understanding.

I took my cut aways to the hydraulic shop, and although he said he has never seen a cut-away before, and does not know what his look like internally, he told me to put the fitting in the middle of the die......not on one end, like I was doing.

So I tried it.

The crimp came out pretty nice looking......I will post a pic when I get home, and probably do a "cut away", cause well.....I think it's cool

However, my "Testing method" was as follows:

I used a "number drill index" and a #28 (.1405) drill fit into the hole before crimping it in the middle of the die.

Then after I crimped in the middle, I could get a #30 (.1285) in the hole.

So although there was "slight deformation", it was not nearly as bad my original crimps.






Yes sir....that is part "science" and part "art form" though. These cheap machines are pretty "bare bones", so right now I am doing some testing to see whats what.






I have double checked them, and they seem to be correct......At least from what I can figure out.



Yea, I didn't know there was such a wide variety of choices, so some further testing is in order.





My hose is "2 wire", so I am not sure exactly what that equates to. It claims to be rated to 5800 psi....

The cost of the hose(s) is a secondary consideration sir.

I like the convenience/freedom of working on a project when I want to.

For instance, if I am working on something @ O'dark thirty, on a Saturday morning, NOT having to wait until Monday morning, when they open, is a big plus for a guy like me.

I can my own beets, I make my own walleye rigs, I have painted my own cars, in short...................I am a DIY'er.....(admittedly, probably to a flaw though, so let's hope it stops before performing surgery )

Frist two things to understand about crimping hose

The crimp diameter is a function if the hose and fitting type. Hose manufacturers provide that data on their websites. It is copious and fills pages and pages of the catalog

Hose crimpers

The most common type are fixed stroke crimpers that rely on the die and spacers to set the finished crimp diameter. These type crimpers usually have setup guides that tell you what die and spacer to use for a specific hose and fitting combination. Shops that use these type crimpers have setup guides for specific hose brands (Weatherhead, Parker, Gates, etc), hose sub-types, (R1,R2,R16, etc) and fitting brands and subtypes (Weatherhead, Parker,, Gates, etc).

Micrometer type crimpers like the Parker Mobile Crimp I have are variable stroke and a single die produces variable finished crimp diameters. As above you need to know the crimp diameter for your specific hose and fitting type combination.

Machine setup consists of a specific die and a variable micrometer setting you dial in using a knob. You place the hose and fitting in the die and activate the machine but you do not run it to full stroke. A buzzer sounds when the desired ctimp diamter is reached and you stop the machine there.

Bubble vs full shell crimps

Fittings come in two basic types - bubble and full shell crimp. As the name indicates the crimp on a full sheel type fitting runs the full length of the shell. For bubble crimp fittings the crimp starts a snall didtsnce below the neck of the fitting. The Weatherhead U series fittingsI use are bubble crump and have a dashed line etched on the shell that inficates the starting point for the crimp. A funished bubble crimp looks like these.




In all cases you always double check the finished crimp to make sure it matches the hose and fitting manufactures specifications.

This is indeed black magic consisting of science and art.

Dan

 

[BAP]

Each brand fitting needs the correct die to go with it. There is No universal die that fits all brand fittings.

 

[John T]

Ok fellas, I have been beating my brains out trying to make my own hoses for this damn "Hydraulic Thumb"

You must be retired....

you sure have a lot of free time..

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Frist two things to understand about crimping hose

The crimp diameter is a function if the hose and fitting type. Hose manufacturers provide that data on their websites. It is copious and fills pages and pages of the catalog

Hose crimpers

The most common type are fixed stroke crimpers that rely on the die and spacers to set the finished crimp diameter. These type crimpers usually have setup guides that tell you what die and spacer to use for a specific hose and fitting combination. Shops that use these type crimpers have setup guides for specific hose brands (Weatherhead, Parker, Gates, etc), hose sub-types, (R1,R2,R16, etc) and fitting brands and subtypes (Weatherhead, Parker,, Gates, etc).

Micrometer type crimpers like the Parker Mobil Crimp I have are variable stroke and a single die produces variable finished crimp diameters. As above you need to know the crimp diameter for your specific hose and fitting type combination.

Machine setup consists of a specific die and a variable micrometer setting you dial in using a knob. You place the hose and fitting in the die and activate the machine but you do not run it to full stroke. A buzzer sounds when the desired ctimp diamter is reached and you stop the machine there.

Bubble vs full shell crimps

Fittings come in two basic types - bubble and full shell crimp. As the name indicates the crimp on a full sheel type fitting runs the full length of the shell. For bubble crimp fittings the crimp starts a snall didtsnce below the neck of the fitting. The Weatherhead U series fittingsI use are bubble crump and have a dashed line etched on the shell that inficates the starting point for the crimp. A funished bubble crimp looks like these.

View attachment 180195


In all cases you always double check the finished crimp to make sure it matches the hose and fitting manufactures specifications.

This is indeed black magic consisting of science and art.

Dan

Thanks Dan!!!

I will have to dive a little deeper into this. Kinda sounds like, in order to keep life simpler, I need to decide on a manufacturer and stick with them.

During my "experimental phase" I have Vevor brand hose, and some sort of "mystery fittings" from the "Big A".

I was getting a "bulb" on the end of my fittings (sorta like your pic) , but the guy at the shop said that my fittings should not have looked like that...

I am assuming I have "full crimp" style.....but then again, they are "mystery fittings"....so

My machine has a "micrometer" dial on it, and a light that is supposed to come on when it's time to stop....But I need to practice with it, to be more confident that it is actually working correctly.

Thanks for the "crash course" and all the info

You must be retired....

you sure have a lot of free time..

Yes Sir!!!!!!!!!!

Loving retirement!!!!!!!!

ASIDE: I can't remember how the hell I had time to go to work??????

Seriously,........... I am busier than a one legged man in an 'ass kicking' contest.


This dang thing showed up the other day.........




Should be fun getting it into the basement......

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks Dan!!!

I will have to dive a little deeper into this. Kinda sounds like, in order to keep life simpler, I need to decide on a manufacturer and stick with them.

During my "experimental phase" I have Vevor brand hose, and some sort of "mystery fittings" from the "Big A".

I was getting a "bulb" on the end of my fittings (sorta like your pic) , but the guy at the shop said that my fittings should not have looked like that...

I am assuming I have "full crimp" style.....but then again, they are "mystery fittings"....so

My machine has a "micrometer" dial on it, and a light that is supposed to come on when it's time to stop....But I need to practice with it, to be more confident that it is actually working correctly.

Thanks for the "crash course" and all the info

OK - sounds like you have a micrometer type crimper - you just need to learn how to use it.

Let me suggest practicing with these end fittings. They are inexpensive Weatherhead U series compatible fittings and DHH provides crimp data for them. You will have to experiment a bit to find the setting on your crimper that produces the proper crimp diameter. Once I calibrate my crimper I write the settings alongside the data in the DHH tables. These are bubble style fittings and the shell has a dashed line indicating the starting point for the crimp

Braided Hose Fittings

Shop Discount Hydraulic Hose Braided Hose fittings. Our Braided Hose Fittings Interchange with Weatherhead Fittings. Shop Discount Hydraulic Hose today.

www.discounthydraulichose.com

Dan

 

[John T]

Yes Sir!!!!!!!!!!

Loving retirement!!!!!!!!

Thats great. I'm envious.
I have a couple more years.

 

[John T]

Then after I crimped in the middle, I could get a #30 (.1285) in the hole.

So although there was "slight deformation", it was not nearly as bad my original crimps.

Heres an answer/solution from the John T brain trust.....

Insert the drill bit into the fitting BEFORE you crimp it.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

OK - sounds like you have a micrometer type crimper - you just need to learn how to use it.

Let me suggest practicing with these end fittings. They are inexpensive Weatherhead U series compatible fittings and DHH provides crimp data for them. You will have to experiment a bit to find the setting on your crimper that produces the proper crimp diameter. Once I calibrate my crimper I write the settings alongside the data in the DHH tables. These are bubble style fittings and the shell has a dashed line indicating the starting point for the crimp

Braided Hose Fittings

Shop Discount Hydraulic Hose Braided Hose fittings. Our Braided Hose Fittings Interchange with Weatherhead Fittings. Shop Discount Hydraulic Hose today.

www.discounthydraulichose.com

Dan

Any suggestions on a hose brand that compliment those fittings?

As posted previously, I ordered 50 feet of "Vevor" brand hose, but I ain't married to it.........

It was just a "jumping off point" sort of..

 

[TheOldHokie]

Any suggestions on a hose brand that compliment those fittings?

As posted previously, I ordered 50 feet of "Vevor" brand hose, but I ain't married to it.........

It was just a "jumping off point" sort of..

I am a big fan of this Gates hose. Used to be a guy selling it for $3,50 per foot but he seems to be gone. I can give you the crimp diameter for use with the DHH fittings.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/366635817897

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Heres an answer/solution from the John T brain trust.....

Insert the drill bit into the fitting BEFORE you crimp it.

And then you can try to figure out a way to get it out after over crimping the shell.

Dan

 

[John T]

And then you can try to figure out a way to get it out after over crimping the shell.

Dan

I could see that happening.

I wonder if you would feel any greater resistance when you reached the binding point....

Looks like he is well on his way to mastering it. It's all about seat time/practice.

The bad part usually is, after this project is done.... most guys won't use it again for another year or so....
by then you forgot everything you learned...