MY2020 L2501 HST No Start, No Crank -- Looking for Diag Guidance

[ScottRussellMT]

Let me preface this post by thanking in advance for any responses. I am not a technician, just a small landowner trying to make the most of my abilities to assess and repair what appears to be a fairly common issue before resorting to contacting a dealer.
Backstory -- I've had this tractor for not quite four years and I'm the third owner. Tractor had 80 hours when purchase and now it has ~250 hours. 50 hour maintenance was done, along with annual checks. I had one incident like this three years ago and I'm not sure how it got resolved, as I tinkered with a number of components and let it sit for a short period of time before it fired up. When the no start, no crank happened the first time, I can remember accidently adjusting the idle down as the engine was shutting off and the tractor was on a slight incline. Was it my idle adjustment at shutdown that caused the issue, I don't know, Since that incident three years ago, the tractor has operated great.
Current situation -- I've been doing a variety of chores with it this summer including backhoe work, box blading, bushhogging, and bucket work. After working the tractor the other day for probably and hour or so, I needed to stop and change tasks for a short bit. It was running great, when I parked it. Then, I encountered the no start, no crank situation. When keyed on, I get a solid click and lights on the dash, with no cranking when keyed on to start.
Diagnosis done so far:

• Read lots of similar posts and watched a number of YouTube videos of similar scenarios.
• Battery voltage check -- Verified clean and tight battery terminals. I metered 12.75v at the terminals. Prepared to install a new battery.
• Seat safety switch -- I think it's working okay; although, I'm not entire sure how to completely verify with the three wires on the switch.
• PTO safety switches -- Mine has two back-to-back. I've identified one as faulty and I'm awaiting replacement; however, I have it jumpered to continue my diag for now. PTO is not engaged.
• Treadle safety switch -- I think it's working okay; although, I'm not entire sure how to completely verify with the four wires on the switch.
• Clutch pedal switch -- Tested and working properly.
• Stop solenoid -- Removed the solenoid and verified an incoming 12.6v. According to one source I found, if I'm getting the same voltage at the solenoid as the battery, then all the safety switches are working properly. I don't know if this is accurate or not. Tried starting without the solenoid installed and still had a no start, no crank situation. Reinstalled.
• Tested all fuses and they are working correctly.
• Starter Relay Voltage -- I metered 2.5v-3.5v at the starter relay 5a fuse when the power is keyed off. When keyed on the starter relay fuse meters at 55.5v to 65.5v.

My questions are:

1. Is the starter relay voltage normal, as I reported above?
2. If not, is the starter relay causing the behavior or is it the starter itself?
3. Is there anything in my routine actions that caused this to occur?
4. Anything else I missed and should be checking?

Super grateful for comments, suggestions, guidance, etc.
Thank you.
Scott

 

[TheOldHokie]

Let me preface this post by thanking in advance for any responses. I am not a technician, just a small landowner trying to make the most of my abilities to assess and repair what appears to be a fairly common issue before resorting to contacting a dealer.
Backstory -- I've had this tractor for not quite four years and I'm the third owner. Tractor had 80 hours when purchase and now it has ~250 hours. 50 hour maintenance was done, along with annual checks. I had one incident like this three years ago and I'm not sure how it got resolved, as I tinkered with a number of components and let it sit for a short period of time before it fired up. When the no start, no crank happened the first time, I can remember accidently adjusting the idle down as the engine was shutting off and the tractor was on a slight incline. Was it my idle adjustment at shutdown that caused the issue, I don't know, Since that incident three years ago, the tractor has operated great.
Current situation -- I've been doing a variety of chores with it this summer including backhoe work, box blading, bushhogging, and bucket work. After working the tractor the other day for probably and hour or so, I needed to stop and change tasks for a short bit. It was running great, when I parked it. Then, I encountered the no start, no crank situation. When keyed on, I get a solid click and lights on the dash, with no cranking when keyed on to start.
Diagnosis done so far:

• Read lots of similar posts and watched a number of YouTube videos of similar scenarios.
• Battery voltage check -- Verified clean and tight battery terminals. I metered 12.75v at the terminals. Prepared to install a new battery.
• Seat safety switch -- I think it's working okay; although, I'm not entire sure how to completely verify with the three wires on the switch.
• PTO safety switches -- Mine has two back-to-back. I've identified one as faulty and I'm awaiting replacement; however, I have it jumpered to continue my diag for now. PTO is not engaged.
• Treadle safety switch -- I think it's working okay; although, I'm not entire sure how to completely verify with the four wires on the switch.
• Brake switch -- Tested and working properly.
• Stop solenoid -- Removed the solenoid and verified an incoming 12.6v. According to one source I found, if I'm getting the same voltage at the solenoid as the battery, then all the safety switches are working properly. I don't know if this is accurate or not. Tried starting without the solenoid installed and still had a no start, no crank situation. Reinstalled.
• Tested all fuses and they are working correctly.
• Starter Relay Voltage -- I metered 2.5v-3.5v at the starter relay 5a fuse when the power is keyed off. When keyed on the starter relay fuse meters at 55.5v to 65.5v.

My questions are:

1. Is the starter relay voltage normal, as I reported above?
2. If not, is the starter relay causing the behavior or is it the starter itself?
3. Is there anything in my routine actions that caused this to occur?
4. Anything else I missed and should be checking?

Super grateful for comments, suggestions, guidance, etc.
Thank you.
Scott

If it wont crank check all starter interlocks. The WSM will have all the info you need.

Dan

 

[ScottRussellMT]

If it wont crank check all starter interlocks. The WSM will have all the info you need.

Dan

Dan,
Thank you. Looks like I'll need to invest in the WSM. It appears there are a number of online sources. Any to avoid?
Scott

 

[GreensvilleJay]

curious, found this....

Index of Kubotabooks/Tractor Owners Manuals/

they list an L2501 WSM..... free.

 

[ScottRussellMT]

curious, found this....

Index of Kubotabooks/Tractor Owners Manuals/

they list an L2501 WSM..... free.

@GreensvilleJay many thanks. This is super helpful. Now I can try to reconcile my diag against the manual. Cheers!

 

[whitetiger]

According to one source I found, if I'm getting the same voltage at the solenoid as the battery, then all the safety switches are working properly. I don't know if this is accurate or not.

All that tells is that the Operator Present system is working.
One of the PTO switches is for the Cranking circuit, and the other is for the running circuit.
The Hydro pedal switch has 4 wires: 2 for the cranking circuit and 2 for the running circuit. There are 2 sets of contacts in one switch.

Check the small exciter wire that plugs into the starter solenoid. See that it is on the spade and snug.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Starter Relay Voltage -- I metered 2.5v-3.5v at the starter relay 5a fuse when the power is keyed off. When keyed on the starter relay fuse meters at 55.5v to 65.5v.
My questions are:

1. Is the starter relay voltage normal, as I reported above?
2. If not, is the starter relay causing the behavior or is it the starter itself?
3. Is there anything in my routine actions that caused this to occur?
4. Anything else I missed and should be checking?

Super grateful for comments, suggestions, guidance, etc.
Thank you.
Scott

What this tells me is one or more of several scenarios.
#1 You have a faulty meter
#2 You are not setting the meter to the right voltage (AC instead of DC)
#3 You have a really cheap battery charger hooked to it while testing.
#4 You have the tractor parked up against an electric fence
#5 The tractor was recently struck by lightning and you have residual voltage.
#6 You simply got to lay off the shrooms or sauce when testing the electrical.


You simply cannot have that kind of voltage at the starter relay unless one of the above.
It's a 12Volt system, Yes you could see up to 14v at the high side of things but no where near 55 to 65 volts.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

This is a "less than ideal" way to test things, but here is how I do it.

With the key in the "crank position",

I wiggle the treadle pedal, while jiggling the PTO lever. (my seat switch was disabled for "testing" about 3 years ago)......................Although it's a "3-handed operation"; It always fires right up.


Ironically, the seat switch was disabled by using a piece of "safety wire".....

 

[netspyder]

so... this might sound silly but since no one has mentioned it yet, have you fiddled with the shift lever? sometimes mine won't be completely in neutral and i'll get lights but no crank and i'll have to put it in low or something and back to neutral and then it'll fire right up.

 

[TheOldHokie]

What this tells me is one or more of several scenarios.
#1 You have a faulty meter
#2 You are not setting the meter to the right voltage (AC instead of DC)
#3 You have a really cheap battery charger hooked to it while testing.
#4 You have the tractor parked up against an electric fence
#5 The tractor was recently struck by lightning and you have residual voltage.
#6 You simply got to lay off the shrooms or sauce when testing the electrical.


You simply cannot have that kind of voltage at the starter relay unless one of the above.
It's a 12Volt system, Yes you could see up to 14v at the high side of things but no where near 55 to 65 volts.

You have more patience than I. I stopped reading about 1/2 way down....

Dan

 

[ScottRussellMT]

All that tells is that the Operator Present system is working.
One of the PTO switches is for the Cranking circuit, and the other is for the running circuit.
The Hydro pedal switch has 4 wires: 2 for the cranking circuit and 2 for the running circuit. There are 2 sets of contacts in one switch.

Check the small exciter wire that plugs into the starter solenoid. See that it is on the spade and snug.

Thanks for clarifying. I’ll check this out when I get back home this afternoon.

 

[ScottRussellMT]

You have more patience than I. I stopped reading about 1/2 way down....

Dan

Haha! Nice. While not all the above are necessary true, it’s very possible that I have the meter set incorrectly. Thanks for helping get this sorted out. I’ll double check things this afternoon.

 

[ScottRussellMT]

Ok. This is a little update. Thanks to various members posting on this thread, I have some decent direction. Since the last post, this is what I have discovered:

• My variable voltage on the 5a fuse, was due to my trickle charger still being connected and not a cheap voltage meter, recent lightning strike, or being parked against an electric fence. Simple novice diagnostic error on my part. @North Idaho Wolfman identified my error.
• The WSM is fantastic (@TheOldHokie was right to move in this direction) and I've spent some time running correct diagnostic tests against most of the vehicle. The link provided by @GreensvilleJay gave me access to information that helps focus my attention to items most likely to be at fault and methods to eliminate potential issues. I did end up ordering a hardcopy version to use in the field, make notes, bookmark etc.
• My WSM diag has me thinking that my starter relay is the issue. The WSM has a test (see image below) for applying voltage across two terminals and then testing continuity across a couple other terminals. I think I'm testing this correctly and getting no continuity; however, I'm not sure that I'm applying voltage across the two terminals correctly. Any clarification on how this is to be performed will be much appreciated.

Thanks again for all the prior and future advice.
Scott

• 

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

A and B are the coil
Do you get 80 Ohm's or close?
If you don't then it's bad.
If you do:
Ohm across C and D you should get Infinite.
Then apply 12V to A and B (doesn't matter which is + Or -)
With voltage applied to A and B you should now read 0 ohms across C and D.

 

[ScottRussellMT]

A and B are the coil
Do you get 80 Ohm's or close?
If you don't then it's bad.
If you do:
Ohm across C and D you should get Infinite.
Then apply 12V to A and B (doesn't matter which is + Or -)
With voltage applied to A and B you should now read 0 ohms across C and D.

The A and B coils are getting something like 60 Ohms. My uncertainty is with item 3 in the diagnostic test. When the instructions are to "apply voltage across the A and B terminals", does this mean connect a wire from each terminal to the tractor battery (to achieve proper system voltage) and test continuity of terminals C and D? or is there a different way to "apply voltage"? I need to confirm that applying voltage in this way is correct.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

When the instructions are to "apply voltage across the A and B terminals", does this mean connect a wire from each terminal to the tractor battery (to achieve proper system voltage) and test continuity of terminals C and D?

Yes that is exactly what they mean.

 

[ScottRussellMT]

Still working through WSM diagnosis procedures. This next procedure in question is for the OPC timer. Do I simply substitute "1" for "A", "2" for "B", etc. when it comes to the terminal designations? And secondly, the "bulb terminal" phrase only appears two times in the entire WSM, in this particular procedure. Where is or what is the "bulb terminal" being referred? Any assistance on interpreting this verbiage in the instructions will also be much appreciated.

 

[ScottRussellMT]

Yes that is exactly what they mean.

Good to know. Thanks. I wasn't getting any OHM continuity readings with this approach yesterday, so I'll reattempt today to ensure I was approaching the procedure correctly. If so, it appears that this relay may be my culprit and I hope my dealer keeps one of these in-stock; otherwise, I'm done for another week or so.

 

[ScottRussellMT]

Yes that is exactly what they mean.

I just retested the stop solenoid relay and got 0 Ohms of continuity across terminals C and D when voltage is applied across terminals A and B. As such, a new relay is in order. I’m hopeful that once replaced, I can button things up and resume working in the field. I’ll post an update once the new relay has been installed.
Thanks again to everyone for input.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

0 ohm means its working as designed.
Infinite ohms would mean it's bad.

You need to see where your not getting the right signal or power from.

I'm betting your over complicating what's either happening or not happening.

The issue is more likely a safety switch issue than it is another component failure.