I am sure a repeat topic but a current take is wanted... do you prefer the HST or Direct Trans? This pending new/used 25 to 39 hp tractor will mainly be mowing, but pulling some possibly heavy wood piles, and moving the occasional 4x5 hay bale. And I do not want this tractor to go to the shop for transmission repairs...
The HST or the Direct Trans - mainly mowing, but...?
- Thread starter tacotime
- Start date
HST is more convenient and versatile but also less efficient and more expensive.
HST is clearly the transmission of choice for CUTs/SCUTs and will have higher resale value.
PHPaul
Well-known member
Equipment
B2650, Pronovost snow blower, Landpride rotary mower, Howard tiller, box blade
I was leery of the HST when I moved from a John Deere 750 GST to my Kubota.
11 years later, I have no regrets. They ARE noisier, especially in a cab.
11 years later, I have no regrets. They ARE noisier, especially in a cab.
For mowing my sister's pasture, the geared Ford is fine. For bush hogging the trails, HST would be better. I'm not sure what pulling wood piles is. For loading and unloading bales, really for any loader work, HST is much better.
Overall, unless you do predominantly open field mowing, the HST wins.
Overall, unless you do predominantly open field mowing, the HST wins.
jyoutz
Well-known member
Premium Member
Equipment
MX6000 HST open station, FEL, 6’ cutter, forks, 8’ rear blade, 7’ cultivator
The only disadvantage I can see for HST is that you lose a few PTO HP. But the advantages are many, especially for field mowing and brush cutting. you can creep at ground speed while keeping engine rpm high. Just buy enough tractor and don’t worry about PTO HP. More clutches are replaced on gear tractors than HSTs needing repair.
My first tractor was geared and the next four have been HST's. For me the HST's are easier to use. When very small movements are needed there's no substitute for an HST. You can move the tractor a fraction of an inch at a time with no clutch to ride. As others mentioned the HST does make more noise than a geared tractor. In my experience the amount of noise produced by an HST indirectly proportional to the cost. It also varies in pitch and volume with different RPM's, the range it's operating in, etc.
PHPaul
Well-known member
Equipment
B2650, Pronovost snow blower, Landpride rotary mower, Howard tiller, box blade
Runs With Scissors
Well-known member
Equipment
L2501 TLB , Grappel, Brush Hog, Box Blade, Ballast box, Forks, Tiller, PH digger
I drive a 6-speed manual Ram 2500 Diesel as my daily driver.
EVERYONE….and I mean EVERYONE, told me NOT to buy a 6-speed truck…….The predictions ranged from…….
The sky will rain down Hell Fire and Brimstone…………...
to Locusts will form great clouds and eat all the crops……………..
to You will be Bankrupt (and homeless) in less than 20 days…………..
But in the end, I love driving that truck and have never regretted in in the entire 21 years I have driven it…..(Not even once……..not even in traffic jams!!!!!)
HOWEVER with that being said, I am glad I got an HST tractor. I would not have a DT tractor now that I have a HST….it’s far superior for what I ended up using the tractor for…...
…Good luck.
EVERYONE….and I mean EVERYONE, told me NOT to buy a 6-speed truck…….The predictions ranged from…….
The sky will rain down Hell Fire and Brimstone…………...
to Locusts will form great clouds and eat all the crops……………..
to You will be Bankrupt (and homeless) in less than 20 days…………..
But in the end, I love driving that truck and have never regretted in in the entire 21 years I have driven it…..(Not even once……..not even in traffic jams!!!!!)
HOWEVER with that being said, I am glad I got an HST tractor. I would not have a DT tractor now that I have a HST….it’s far superior for what I ended up using the tractor for…...
…Good luck.
I am all in the HST, same as others started with a gear and was leery about the HST. More cab noise ,yes, a little more maintenance, yes, better resale YESSS. And if you are doing any repeat movements like bucket work it is a gawd send. And to honest if you give one a fair shot, I think you would be very happy with it. If you really want to get feel for one, see if your local dealer will let you play with one over a week end, you might be pleasantly surprised
I'd much prefer a gear drive for mowing, as well as dragging driveways or road traveling. Pick a gear and ride. I prefer a hydrostatic for loader work or close quarter maneuvering.
I ran a manual trans John Deere 3020 for a while an quite enjoyed it. You'll probably get better highway speed with manual as well.
I ran a manual trans John Deere 3020 for a while an quite enjoyed it. You'll probably get better highway speed with manual as well.
Why do you think an HST is inherently less reliable? Its actually a really simple and reliable mechanism with lots less moving parts.
For general purpose tractors in this class I am HST/GST and independent PTO all the way. Agricultural behemoths are now mostly CVT or power shift.
Dan
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I'm guessing your HST doesn't have cruise control?
Both mine do, and I use the cruise quite a bit!
One of the nice things of a HST is if your doing PTO work, you set the engine speed for that, then you can independently set your ground speed with the pedal or cruise, AND change the ground speed "on the fly" without interfering with the PTO operation.
@Shawn T. W , you are correct on that, I do not have the cruise option. I can see where that would be nice!
That said, all of the tractors I've run with gear drive have had a two stage clutch - you press down halfway to disengage transmission without affecting PTO. So you can change your groundspeed independently of PTO.
Plus, a manual trans can be a nice excuse when your buddy asks to borrow your tractor for a "small job"!
That said, all of the tractors I've run with gear drive have had a two stage clutch - you press down halfway to disengage transmission without affecting PTO. So you can change your groundspeed independently of PTO.
Plus, a manual trans can be a nice excuse when your buddy asks to borrow your tractor for a "small job"!
Well, most smaller tractors that I know of don't have "shift on the fly" or fully synchronized transmissions, (you have to stop to change gears) yes you can clutch to "coast" but it's not like a HST which is still in "gear".
I have and use a gear drive tractor and an HST tractor, and the ability to vary engine speed relative to PTO speed is really the only difference that is of any consequence to me. There's much to like about a geared tractor with hydraulic shuttle, and even more to like about a tractor with Kubota's KVT.
@jyoutz, it's probably not an apples to apples comparison, but on paper the M6060 and MX6000 have the same or very similar hp, but in actual use they feel completely different. The M is way heavier but also feels like it has way more power than the MX, even when both were stock. Working on a hot day the difference is even more evident.
I like the MX and would buy it again (or maybe an L6060 instead) and it's hard to argue against that generalization that most people find HST tractors easier to live with day in and day out. They are easier to operate, but that doesn't mean that geared tractors are hard to operate. The both have their place.
HST all the way.
Gear tractors, so far as I can tell, have three benefits:
Against that, an HST has a key benefits:
Gear tractors, so far as I can tell, have three benefits:
- A little more HP to the ground. But since you're buying a tractor, you can buy one with 3HP more so this isn't an issue. Usually smaller tractors are traction limited not HP limited (for driving), and on the PTO there's not much you do that uses every single PTO HP.
- Nicer when running constant speed for long stretches, you don't have to hold the pedal down. It depends what you're mowing whether this would be relevant to you. And my new MX has a hand operated cruise control, which is basically just a hand lever for the HST pedal.
- Less heat when running constant speed. Again....does this relate to you?
Against that, an HST has a key benefits:
- A lot easier to change speed or direction - for example loader work. Also easier to adjust speed to terrain - you can speed up and slow down when mowing for corners, for bumps etc. A geared tractor you can in theory do this by adjusting the throttle (also slows your mower down), or riding the clutch (not exactly good for the clutch)
- A lot easier to do close quarters work - you're not riding a clutch, you can creep forward or backward in any range
- Ability to adjust travel speed independently of implement speed (without changing gears)
I think the whole loader work comparison is overstated when comparing HSTs to gear drive tractors, particularly if the gear drive tractor has an hydraulic shuttle. I've done tons of loader work with the M6060 and it's just not an issue. I had a job recently loading a horse manure pile into a dump truck and it was no big deal using the M6060. When there's dirt to move, the difference in transmission isn't part of my decision matrix when I chose the M or the MX for the job.
As I mentioned, the PTO speed vs. engine speed is the big one when it comes to actually using these tractors.