Turbo engine vs Naturally aspirated

[Floridaman]

Don’t flame me. Since my question is not about Mr Orange
Looking for advice.
I have come across 2 engines that cought my attention. Both are Perkins, 404D-22 & 404D-22T. One is 49hp/ 105lb torque naturally aspirated and the second is 60 hp/ 141lb torque with a turbo. Both are mechanical fuel injection.
The unit will sit stationary on a open trailer in central Florida. So during the summer, temps can get in mid 90°s.
I’ve read the turbo engine will run hotter due to the turbo.

The engine will run intermittently for 30-60min at a time a total of 3-5 hours over a 8 hour day.
I will need roughly 42-45 hp all the time. So I know that will tax the naturally aspirated engine as it will be running at around 89%ish VS the turbo at 70%ish.

The price difference in the 2 engines is $700.

Is the turbo the way to go?

 

[#40Fan]

Will you have a way to remove the load from the engine to allow the turbo to cool down before shutting down the engine?

 

[Workerbee]

I’m assuming that either would havea functioning coolant system, so I doubt a turbo running in 90 degree heat is any issue. Id prefer the naturally aspirated for constant duty, but if you need the extra hp go with the turbo.

 

[SDT]

Don’t flame me. Since my question is not about Mr Orange
Looking for advice.
I have come across 2 engines that cought my attention. Both are Perkins, 404D-22 & 404D-22T. One is 49hp/ 105lb torque naturally aspirated and the second is 60 hp/ 141lb torque with a turbo. Both are mechanical fuel injection.
The unit will sit stationary on a open trailer in central Florida. So during the summer, temps can get in mid 90°s.
I’ve read the turbo engine will run hotter due to the turbo.

The engine will run intermittently for 30-60min at a time a total of 3-5 hours over a 8 hour day.
I will need roughly 42-45 hp all the time. So I know that will tax the naturally aspirated engine as it will be running at around 89%ish VS the turbo at 70%ish.

The price difference in the 2 engines is $700.

Is the turbo the way to go?

I would choose the NA engine in a heartbeat and save the $700.

 

[Floridaman]

Will you have a way to remove the load from the engine to allow the turbo to cool down before shutting down the engine?

the engine will be for a pressure washer. Yes, when I am done, I can let the engine idle for how ever long I need it to for it to cool the turbo. The engine only has a load on it when the trigger is squeeze.

I’m assuming that either would havea functioning coolant system, so I doubt a turbo running in 90 degree heat is any issue. Id prefer the naturally aspirated for constant duty, but if you need the extra hp go with the turbo.

i feel like I may be at the top end (maxing the engine out) with the lower HP one, but I’m not 100% sure. Why is your prefereance the naturally aspirated one?

I would choose the NA engine in a heartbeat and save the $700.

Besides the $700, what other reasoning do you have?

below are pics of the unit I’m looking at

 

[William1]

I'd go non-turbo, one less part to go bad. Most diesels are designed to run at rated output, basically forever No need to have 'headroom' especially for your use where you know you could not ever accidentally over load the engine for any extended period of time;
One big ass power washer.....

 

[JasonW]

You cannot compare gas HP to diesel HP without looking at torque. The 49/105 NA diesel will seem more powerful than a 49hp gas engine. Diesel zero turn mowers prove this.

Not familiar with those models but with them being mechanical injection the NA model could smoke while under heavy load(if you are anticipating it might be maxed out) compared to a Turbo model as the turbo can/will supply more air as load increases.

As long as you’re able to let them cool down after heavy loads before shut down I would vote for turbo. No one regrets having too much power.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I have a turbo diesel in my truck, and never had a “heat problem” with it when I am in other states like SD or AZ.

Anecdotally, I would also point out that all/most/lots of “big rigs” that pull heavy loads, are turbo’ed and seem to do just fine in the southern states as well.

I’d get the turbo without any hesitation. As pointed out, just let it cool down for a minute or so…..

 

[McMXi]

Is the N/A engine known to be up to the task? If it's up to the task why go to the added complexity and cost of the turbo charged engine? I think more research might be in order, not to save $700, but to buy the right engine for the intended use.

I've owned five turbos in cars, four turbos in trucks and three turbos in tractors without any issues at all. I currently have turbos in two trucks and two tractors, but I'm wanting as much power as I can reasonably and safely get. I'm not against turbos at all, but I am against not picking the right tool for the job.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Really ODD that there is a flood of those engines on the market???

Your HP numbers are biased to the high side I would be suspect of actual HP of the engine you will receive.
Without certified independent Dyno tests a seller can tweak the numbers any way he wishes.
So if your minimum demand is 49HP I would go with the turbo model to closer to your needs.

 

[Trash Panda]

I absolutely would rather have power to spare.

Turbo unit all the way.

 

[SDT]

the engine will be for a pressure washer. Yes, when I am done, I can let the engine idle for how ever long I need it to for it to cool the turbo. The engine only has a load on it when the trigger is squeeze.



i feel like I may be at the top end (maxing the engine out) with the lower HP one, but I’m not 100% sure. Why is your prefereance the naturally aspirated one?



Besides the $700, what other reasoning do you have?

below are pics of the unit I’m looking at

Note: My original post stated "and" save the

the engine will be for a pressure washer. Yes, when I am done, I can let the engine idle for how ever long I need it to for it to cool the turbo. The engine only has a load on it when the trigger is squeeze.



i feel like I may be at the top end (maxing the engine out) with the lower HP one, but I’m not 100% sure. Why is your prefereance the naturally aspirated one?



Besides the $700, what other reasoning do you have?

below are pics of the unit I’m looking at

Aside from the $700 "bonus," you do not need the 60 HP engine which has the unnecessary turbo system subject to infancy failure and/or durability issues.

This is not rocket science. Why gild the lilly even at equal cost?

 

[Floridaman]

Really ODD that there is a flood of those engines on the market???

Your HP numbers are biased to the high side I would be suspect of actual HP of the engine you will receive.
Without certified independent Dyno tests a seller can tweak the numbers any way he wishes.
So if your minimum demand is 49HP I would go with the turbo model to closer to your needs.

View attachment 173522

The 404 engine has several variations. It’s not just 1 turbo engine and 1 non turbo engine. Depending on what exact model you get, (turbo for example) it may only put out the minimum 49 hp vs the maximum 61 hp.
The 2 engines I listed above are the top HP for their varisn’t. These hp ratings are peak, I get that. I saw a chart somewhere and I wish I would’ve downloaded it, but it shows what the constant horsepower ratings are for these engines and it was only I think 3 or 4 hp lower than what it was at peak.

 

[Floridaman]

You cannot compare gas HP to diesel HP without looking at torque. The 49/105 NA diesel will seem more powerful than a 49hp gas engine. Diesel zero turn mowers prove this.

Not familiar with those models but with them being mechanical injection the NA model could smoke while under heavy load(if you are anticipating it might be maxed out) compared to a Turbo model as the turbo can/will supply more air as load increases.

As long as you’re able to let them cool down after heavy loads before shut down I would vote for turbo. No one regrets having too much power.

and that’s what I thought also. When I contacted some of these companies that manufacture, the pressure washing pumps and I asked them is there a different formula to use when trying to determine how much horsepower you need for diesel engine to get the same use out of a pump as you were with the gas engine they told me it didn’t matter.

Gas engine is PSI x GPM / 1450 x 1.3 = HP needed in gas. But I know my 37 hp gas Kohler engine puts out I think 58 foot pounds of torque. So I don’t understand how the pump companies are telling me that diesel horsepower, and a gas horsepower doesn’t make a difference, especially when the torque on a diesel is going to be more than double when the horsepower is the same as gas.
Right now, my engine turns at 3600 RPMs. As soon as I squeeze the trigger the RPMs drop to about 3200. That’s how much of a load the pump puts on the engine. So no doubt day after day this is putting in a lot of wear and tear on the engine.
I want to avoid that with the diesel.

 

[Trash Panda]

and that’s what I thought also. When I contacted some of these companies that manufacture, the pressure washing pumps and I asked them is there a different formula to use when trying to determine how much horsepower you need for diesel engine to get the same use out of a pump as you were with the gas engine they told me it didn’t matter.

Gas engine is PSI x GPM / 1450 x 1.3 = HP needed in gas. But I know my 37 hp gas Kohler engine puts out I think 58 foot pounds of torque. So I don’t understand how the pump companies are telling me that diesel horsepower, and a gas horsepower doesn’t make a difference, especially when the torque on a diesel is going to be more than double when the horsepower is the same as gas.
Right now, my engine turns at 3600 RPMs. As soon as I squeeze the trigger the RPMs drop to about 3200. That’s how much of a load the pump puts on the engine. So no doubt day after day this is putting in a lot of wear and tear on the engine.
I want to avoid that with the diesel.

If you want to avoid wear and tear associated with “lugging” down an engine, go with one that has more ponies to spare.

Also, as wolf man said, those ratings are the best case scenario, and real world numbers likely will be lower. I would leave myself some wiggle room, especially for only 700 bucks difference.

 

[TheOldHokie]

[

Gas engine is PSI x GPM / 1450 x 1.3 = HP needed in gas. But I know my 37 hp gas Kohler engine puts out I think 58 foot pounds of torque. So I don’t understand how the pump companies are telling me that diesel horsepower, and a gas horsepower doesn’t make a difference, especially when the torque on a diesel is going to be more than double when the horsepower is the same as gas.

You are missung something in your calculations. Your r diesel is going to run at 2/3 the speed of the gas engine. Have you considered what thats going to do to pump output volume (GPM)?

To get the same GPM out of the pump you will hsve to gear the diesel speed up by 1.33 which is going to eat torque and HP.

How about providing some basic pump data.

Desired flow = 10 GPM
Pump displacement = ???
Pump pressure = ???

Or better yet make and model of the pump.

Dan

 

[SDT]

and that’s what I thought also. When I contacted some of these companies that manufacture, the pressure washing pumps and I asked them is there a different formula to use when trying to determine how much horsepower you need for diesel engine to get the same use out of a pump as you were with the gas engine they told me it didn’t matter.

Gas engine is PSI x GPM / 1450 x 1.3 = HP needed in gas. But I know my 37 hp gas Kohler engine puts out I think 58 foot pounds of torque. So I don’t understand how the pump companies are telling me that diesel horsepower, and a gas horsepower doesn’t make a difference, especially when the torque on a diesel is going to be more than double when the horsepower is the same as gas.
Right now, my engine turns at 3600 RPMs. As soon as I squeeze the trigger the RPMs drop to about 3200. That’s how much of a load the pump puts on the engine. So no doubt day after day this is putting in a lot of wear and tear on the engine.
I want to avoid that with the diesel.

It doesen't matter.

HP is HP.

 

[Trash Panda]

It doesen't matter.

HP is HP.

Not when it comes to pumps.

Pumps have RPM requirements as well.

 

[SDT]

Not when it comes to pumps.

Pumps have RPM requirements as well.

HP is HP.

Suitability for a particular application is an entirely different issue.

 

[Trash Panda]

HP is HP.

Suitability for a particular application is an entirely different issue.

His particular application is a pump.