flail mower or rotory brush cutter
- Thread starter LBZ
- Start date
NCL4701
Well-known member
Equipment
L4701, T2290, WC68, grapple, BB1572, Farmi W50R, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
I have a rotary brush cutter (bush hog). Don’t have a flail.
Either should work so long as the brush doesn’t exceed the size for which the cutter is rated.
First obvious difference that comes to mind as you mentioned uneven terrain and creek crossings is the rotary cutter extends past the rear of the tractor significantly more than a flail. That creates more tail swing (can be problematic for tight turns on narrow trails) and significantly decreases approach and departure angle (can be problematic crossing ditches, creeks, starting up steep grades, etc.). The departure angle issue for a rotary cutter can be addressed by using a chain for the toplink or, in some circumstances, removing the toplink. If you totally remove the toplink, you can’t lift the cutter so there’s a downside to that solution. Yes, rotary cutter toplink connections allow for quite a bit of toplink travel but when the terrain is rough enough, you can still run out of travel and have a binding issue that will bend whatever the weakest link is.
I have two creek crossings and some pretty rough terrain on our portion of a county sewer main to deal with in addition to ATV type trails and a couple small meadow type fields. I chose a rotary cutter because my father had a 30+ year old 5’ on the property that just needed a little TLC to get it in running order, so the price (about $25 in supplies and a few hours labor) was right. To cross the creeks, I had to either remove the toplink and drag it across or wind the toplink all the way in to lift and carry across, then wind it out to mow, repeat to go home. Several areas, I have to back up a slope or down a slope and the transition is so severe I’d have to remove the toplink to allow enough flex. No issues at all mowing our fields. I solved my issues with a hydraulic toplink attached to a rear remote with float detent. Crossing creeks, I pull it all the way in. Mowing, I put it in float. Only downsides I know of for the hydraulic toplink with float are cost and you can’t use check valves on a cylinder with float. I was getting a hydraulic toplink for grading work so the hydraulic with float made sense for me. If it was just for the cutter, I probably would have used a chain.
Establishing the ATV trails, I had to consider the turning ability of the tractor with the tail swing of the cutter hanging off the back. Not a big deal in my case. That tail swing hanging way off the back thing does come in handy for one of our meadows where we have a bunch of trees. The mower deck can be backed quite a ways under low hanging limbs before the rear of the tractor gets to the tree.
If I had my “ideal” rough cut brush cutter/mower, I think it would be a 6’ flail. I think that would be a better fit for some of the rough terrain and tight areas I work with. For the cost difference for me ($25 invested in the cutter + whatever the cost difference was for a float valve v center return) v several thousand $ for a flail, I can put up with the slightly less than ideal, yet competent, rotary cutter. If I was choosing between a new flail v new rotary and cost wasn’t a consideration, I’d lean toward the flail for really rough terrain work. But I don’t have a flail so maybe someone that has one can explain why I’m wrong.
Sorry for the long winded response. I’m sitting at a car dealership waiting on them to finish the 15k mile maintenance on my wife’s car, thus the rambling.
Either should work so long as the brush doesn’t exceed the size for which the cutter is rated.
First obvious difference that comes to mind as you mentioned uneven terrain and creek crossings is the rotary cutter extends past the rear of the tractor significantly more than a flail. That creates more tail swing (can be problematic for tight turns on narrow trails) and significantly decreases approach and departure angle (can be problematic crossing ditches, creeks, starting up steep grades, etc.). The departure angle issue for a rotary cutter can be addressed by using a chain for the toplink or, in some circumstances, removing the toplink. If you totally remove the toplink, you can’t lift the cutter so there’s a downside to that solution. Yes, rotary cutter toplink connections allow for quite a bit of toplink travel but when the terrain is rough enough, you can still run out of travel and have a binding issue that will bend whatever the weakest link is.
I have two creek crossings and some pretty rough terrain on our portion of a county sewer main to deal with in addition to ATV type trails and a couple small meadow type fields. I chose a rotary cutter because my father had a 30+ year old 5’ on the property that just needed a little TLC to get it in running order, so the price (about $25 in supplies and a few hours labor) was right. To cross the creeks, I had to either remove the toplink and drag it across or wind the toplink all the way in to lift and carry across, then wind it out to mow, repeat to go home. Several areas, I have to back up a slope or down a slope and the transition is so severe I’d have to remove the toplink to allow enough flex. No issues at all mowing our fields. I solved my issues with a hydraulic toplink attached to a rear remote with float detent. Crossing creeks, I pull it all the way in. Mowing, I put it in float. Only downsides I know of for the hydraulic toplink with float are cost and you can’t use check valves on a cylinder with float. I was getting a hydraulic toplink for grading work so the hydraulic with float made sense for me. If it was just for the cutter, I probably would have used a chain.
Establishing the ATV trails, I had to consider the turning ability of the tractor with the tail swing of the cutter hanging off the back. Not a big deal in my case. That tail swing hanging way off the back thing does come in handy for one of our meadows where we have a bunch of trees. The mower deck can be backed quite a ways under low hanging limbs before the rear of the tractor gets to the tree.
If I had my “ideal” rough cut brush cutter/mower, I think it would be a 6’ flail. I think that would be a better fit for some of the rough terrain and tight areas I work with. For the cost difference for me ($25 invested in the cutter + whatever the cost difference was for a float valve v center return) v several thousand $ for a flail, I can put up with the slightly less than ideal, yet competent, rotary cutter. If I was choosing between a new flail v new rotary and cost wasn’t a consideration, I’d lean toward the flail for really rough terrain work. But I don’t have a flail so maybe someone that has one can explain why I’m wrong.
Sorry for the long winded response. I’m sitting at a car dealership waiting on them to finish the 15k mile maintenance on my wife’s car, thus the rambling.
NCL, thanks for the detailed response. For all the reasons you talked about I've been leaning towards the flail.
I do have a rear remote with float but my hydraulic top link has the check valve. Should I swap for a top link without the check valve or would I be fine as is. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how what I have would be any different than a standard top link. The lower arms will still ride with the earth although changing the angle somewhat, correct? I'm trying to imagine if a floating top link would maintain the same angle?
I do have a rear remote with float but my hydraulic top link has the check valve. Should I swap for a top link without the check valve or would I be fine as is. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how what I have would be any different than a standard top link. The lower arms will still ride with the earth although changing the angle somewhat, correct? I'm trying to imagine if a floating top link would maintain the same angle?
GibbyESS9
Active member
Equipment
2020 Bx23s,BX2672 plow, Titan Forks, Land Pride 48” BB, FEL, Bestco Flail mower
I have a flail for my property with hammer blades and I am a big fan of it. Mostly for weeds and trail maintenance . I don't really have grass, just trees and trails to maintain. I only use it maybe three times per year.
Good luck
J
Good luck
J
Elliott in GA
Well-known member
Equipment
LX 2610SU w/535,LP RCR1860,FDR1660,SGC0554,FSP500, DD BBX60005
FWIW, most modern rotary cutters have pivoting top link connections that allow for a much greater articulation. I connect to mine with a Quick Hitch, and I am going up and down terraces, crossing small creeks via fording and etc.
Also, if you have lots of limbs / large sticks, rocks and etc., it is just a matter of time until you suck one up into and jam the flail. If you are lucky, it will only involve new belts and an hour or two.
Messicks has two videos worth watching. One about flail versus rotary cutter (spoiler alert, they sucked up a stick) and rotary cutter articulation.
Good luck with you choice. As always, pros and cons with both.
Also, if you have lots of limbs / large sticks, rocks and etc., it is just a matter of time until you suck one up into and jam the flail. If you are lucky, it will only involve new belts and an hour or two.
Messicks has two videos worth watching. One about flail versus rotary cutter (spoiler alert, they sucked up a stick) and rotary cutter articulation.
Good luck with you choice. As always, pros and cons with both.
North Idaho Wolfman
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Flail with hammer blades all the way.
You don't need to change or worry about the top link.
I don't ever have issues with logs, stick, or even the occasional rock.
The flail just eats them or spits them out the back.
The flail doesn't throw debris around like a rotary can.
You don't need to change or worry about the top link.
I don't ever have issues with logs, stick, or even the occasional rock.
The flail just eats them or spits them out the back.
The flail doesn't throw debris around like a rotary can.
Russell King
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L185F, Modern Ag Competitor 4’ shredder, Rhino tiller, rear dirt scoop
Look at the height of what the mower is capable of. Most flail mowers have a limit that is less than most rotary cutters. The flail mowers can probably be run higher by carrying the weight of the mower and adjusting the top link. I believe the flail mowers rear wheel is actually a continuous roller across the back. The rotary mower will have a single or double wheel at the rear. Getting that to be hydraulically adjusted would improve the mower greatly in my book.
As to the top link confusion for the rotary cutter you expressed:
The mower will be long out the rear, let’s use 7 feet out from the pin attachments. If the top link is short (tight) then when you crest the top of a hill the top link would actually hold the rear end of the mower up (wheel off the ground) and change the cutting height. With a long top link there can be enough slack for the mower to continue to follow the terrain over the crest of the hill.
When going through a creek crossing (or a ditch) the front wheels of the tractor start to move up while the rear of the mower is still higher that the tractor’s rear wheels, effectively cramming the mower towards the tractor’s rear. If there is a top link that distance could be longer than the terrain geometry allows which means something will be bent. Hopefully that is the top link but it Gould be the rear cast case of the tractor gets damaged. Therefore most people will try to shorten the top link and lift the mower as high as possible before moving down into the ditch. But if your brakes can’t stop the tractor and you still have too sharp of a ditch, you may end up wedged in the ditch or with damaged parts again.
The articulated top connection has eliminated most of that if it is probably adjusted and the hydraulic top link allows for adjustment on the fly as the terrain changes.
But still something to worry about while also dodging trees, evaluating path of motion, evaluating the steepness of the grade and how much you don’t want the tractor to turn on its side!
Hope that clears that up some.
I personally have a rear rotary cutter but am wanting to get a flail (but think they cut too short for native tall grass prairie) so will probably stick to the rotary cutter and use a lawn mower when I want to clean up in the winter.
The rotary cutter will leave long pieces of grass in windrows if cutting from tall thick grass to short grass in one pass. The flail cuts it into much shorter pieces.
The rotary cutter will throw debris over a long distance, the flail supposedly does not do that.
As to the top link confusion for the rotary cutter you expressed:
The mower will be long out the rear, let’s use 7 feet out from the pin attachments. If the top link is short (tight) then when you crest the top of a hill the top link would actually hold the rear end of the mower up (wheel off the ground) and change the cutting height. With a long top link there can be enough slack for the mower to continue to follow the terrain over the crest of the hill.
When going through a creek crossing (or a ditch) the front wheels of the tractor start to move up while the rear of the mower is still higher that the tractor’s rear wheels, effectively cramming the mower towards the tractor’s rear. If there is a top link that distance could be longer than the terrain geometry allows which means something will be bent. Hopefully that is the top link but it Gould be the rear cast case of the tractor gets damaged. Therefore most people will try to shorten the top link and lift the mower as high as possible before moving down into the ditch. But if your brakes can’t stop the tractor and you still have too sharp of a ditch, you may end up wedged in the ditch or with damaged parts again.
The articulated top connection has eliminated most of that if it is probably adjusted and the hydraulic top link allows for adjustment on the fly as the terrain changes.
But still something to worry about while also dodging trees, evaluating path of motion, evaluating the steepness of the grade and how much you don’t want the tractor to turn on its side!
Hope that clears that up some.
I personally have a rear rotary cutter but am wanting to get a flail (but think they cut too short for native tall grass prairie) so will probably stick to the rotary cutter and use a lawn mower when I want to clean up in the winter.
The rotary cutter will leave long pieces of grass in windrows if cutting from tall thick grass to short grass in one pass. The flail cuts it into much shorter pieces.
The rotary cutter will throw debris over a long distance, the flail supposedly does not do that.
North Idaho Wolfman
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
You can set a flail mowers height, and they use them on prarie grasses up here and they do very well.
i use a flail mower having had rotary cutters in the past i never want to deal with those again. total pain in the ass to me for maintanance. i would rather deal with a bunch of small individual hammer type blades than the huge bulky difficult to keep sharp rotary blades.
ive got a landpride flail mower and can access the routine maintenance things without any monkey business including removing hammers.
ive got a landpride flail mower and can access the routine maintenance things without any monkey business including removing hammers.
Thank you. That is how I had figured the top link works.
For the record, my desire to put the tractor on its side is less than zero!
As for the grass prairie I would think you could set your height with the 3 point as long as you are certain you won't be hitting a rock or something that could be thrown back at the tractor or in anyone's vicinity.
I don't cut that much with my rotary cutter, but I've had no issues. From what I understand, flails can either be rough cutting or pretty smooth cutting.
From some videos on YouTube, it seems you can more easily use a wider flail and you can offset them. Depending on cost, I might buy a flail if I didn't have the rotary cutter.
From some videos on YouTube, it seems you can more easily use a wider flail and you can offset them. Depending on cost, I might buy a flail if I didn't have the rotary cutter.
NCL4701
Well-known member
Equipment
L4701, T2290, WC68, grapple, BB1572, Farmi W50R, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
Now I’m curious about max height for a flail. I have to cut our meadow areas where we want native forbs at 8” once a year in the winter, which keeps saplings at bay but allows native pollinators to out compete grasses. 8” is as high as my bush hog cuts, but is also minimum for our forbs. The areas we want grass I cut at 4” a couple times a year because that’s low enough to kill both saplings and our native forbs while remaining friendly to most of our native grasses.
Do flails not have the ability to cut at a height of 8” or more?
I do understand any mower would cut higher by raising the 3 point and not having the guide wheel/roller on the ground but that would not work well anywhere that isn’t flat.
Do flails not have the ability to cut at a height of 8” or more?
I do understand any mower would cut higher by raising the 3 point and not having the guide wheel/roller on the ground but that would not work well anywhere that isn’t flat.
I may be wrong here but the way I see it is that the flail would be much closer to the tractor there by minimizing height differences. On the other hand If the rears fall in to a dip the mower would obviously cut too close. I also have some clover I'd like to cut over the top of but I have the area fairly smooth with more gradual slopes.
Flail all day long. I have a Land Pride 12ft folding cutter, a Land Pride 7ft rotary cutter and a Del Morino 5ft flail with hydraulic cutting head offset and rotation. The flail is just so useful and versatile a tool and I'm most likely going to sell the RCR1884 this spring since it's just not that useful for me, particularly after I bought the RC3712 which is way faster than the 7ft cutter.
You can float the flail over the ground if necessary to top taller stuff, in fact, that's exactly how many European farmers use their flails. Also, if you need to widen a trail, you can rotate the cutting head and trim hedges or bushes back.
Last edited:
Very helpful, thank you. I am a new tractor owner (MX6000 hstc), and considering which mower type to buy (rotary vs flail) and was concerned that the fail could only cut low instead of at the 10" or so needed for my CREP fields ( I also have trails and woody edges to mow). If you don't mind I have a couple questions on your setup: Which DelMorino flail do you have and why did you go with the 5'? Y or hammer blades? Did you need any particular additional setup to be able to safely float the mower? And, do you recommend manual vs hydraulic offset? Thanks for helping this tractor rookie!
I have the Del Morino Centurion Super 158 because it's a good size for the MX. I would have chosen a wider model for the MX if it were not for the significant offset of the cutting head. I chose hammer blades since they do a great job on grass, but are much better on thicker, heavier stuff comared to Y blades. Also, I would always choose hydraulic offset over manual since it's way more convenient, and convenience is a good thing with tractors and implements.
I have three sets of wheels weights and filled rear tires on the MX which makes it very stable, even with the cutting head all the way out. An air ride seat is nice too.
Good day.
Was the LP flail that has offset a consideration ? Any reason chose the Del Morino vs the LP? I am interested in a flail soon (I’ve never seen or used one in person) I think and honestly I am not sure what criteria to use to pick one…so I am curious how you selected. Please advise.