M5400 won't start, have changed most everything

[Keith7483]

Hi all, new user here, please be gentle I have a M5400 that we've owned for years. A while ago, it would'nt start. It sounded and acted like the battery was dead, on key turn, the lights on the dash would dim, and I could hear the solenoid click. Replaced the battery, starter, and starter relay, still the problem continues. All of the cable connections are good, but I didn't pull the positive cable all the way out to check it, but I don't see any place that it could chaffe. Cleaned the ground terminal on the frame. So, now I'm wondering if its possible there is a problem with the safety switch that is built in the transmission. Its a manual with high/low range. I have transmission lever in neutral and the shift lever moves freely. Also, made sure the PTO is off. I can start the tractor by towing it and it runs fine. I'm guessing its not a problem with the key as when I turn the key, the dash lights dim, so that circuit is working. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Keith

 

[JasonW]

Not 100 percent sure but on that model the neutral safety switch should be in the F-N-R lever. Not internal to the transmission.

I’d recommend downloading the WSM(shop manual) for your model to help troubleshoot.
Might be able to find it online or some members on here might be able to send you a copy.
How you described the lights dimming and relay clicking sounds like voltage is too low, but could be a safety switch also.
Always troubleshoot first rather than throwing parts at it.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Hi all, new user here, please be gentle I have a M5400 that we've owned for years. A while ago, it would'nt start. It sounded and acted like the battery was dead, on key turn, the lights on the dash would dim, and I could hear the solenoid click. Replaced the battery, starter, and starter relay, still the problem continues. All of the cable connections are good, but I didn't pull the positive cable all the way out to check it, but I don't see any place that it could chaffe. Cleaned the ground terminal on the frame. So, now I'm wondering if its possible there is a problem with the safety switch that is built in the transmission. Its a manual with high/low range. I have transmission lever in neutral and the shift lever moves freely. Also, made sure the PTO is off. I can start the tractor by towing it and it runs fine. I'm guessing its not a problem with the key as when I turn the key, the dash lights dim, so that circuit is working. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Keith

MAKE 200% SURE TRANSMISSION IS IN NEUTRAL!!

Once you are sure its in neutral jumper battery lug on starter to the solenoid terminal.

If it does not crank your problem is battery, battery cable, starter, or starter ground.

If it cranks those components are fine and the problem is in the key start circuit.

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Replace both battery cables ! The clue is 'lights dim trying to start'. That show CURRENT is not passing from battery to starter.

 

[Keith7483]

Replace both battery cables ! The clue is 'lights dim trying to start'. That show CURRENT is not passing from battery to starter.

I thought that showed there was a drain, ostensibly trying to activate the starter???

 

[Keith7483]

MAKE 200% SURE TRANSMISSION IS IN NEUTRAL!!

Once you are sure its in neutral jumper battery lug on starter to the solenoid terminal.

If it does not crank your problem is battery, battery cable, starter, or starter ground.

If it cranks those components are fine and the problem is in the key start circuit.

Dan

Not 100 percent sure but on that model the neutral safety switch should be in the F-N-R lever. Not internal to the transmission.

I’d recommend downloading the WSM(shop manual) for your model to help troubleshoot.
Might be able to find it online or some members on here might be able to send you a copy.
How you described the lights dimming and relay clicking sounds like voltage is too low, but could be a safety switch also.
Always troubleshoot first rather than throwing parts at it.

Yes, it has the F-N_R shifter, thats what I meant by tranny, sorry about that. I did as much trouble shooting as I could, replacing parts was all I had left to do...

 

[Keith7483]

MAKE 200% SURE TRANSMISSION IS IN NEUTRAL!!

Once you are sure its in neutral jumper battery lug on starter to the solenoid terminal.

If it does not crank your problem is battery, battery cable, starter, or starter ground.

If it cranks those components are fine and the problem is in the key start circuit.

Dan

MAKE 200% SURE TRANSMISSION IS IN NEUTRAL!!

Once you are sure its in neutral jumper battery lug on starter to the solenoid terminal.

If it does not crank your problem is battery, battery cable, starter, or starter ground.

If it cranks those components are fine and the problem is in the key start circuit.

Dan

Is the starter grounded by being bolted to the frame?

 

[JasonW]

Is the starter grounded by being bolted to the frame?

Yes

 

[Russell King]

Is the starter grounded by being bolted to the frame?

In theory yes it is. In reality the starter may need to be removed and the area buffed to remove rust. Then at the tractor end of the negative cable, that connection may need to be restored also. Or you can run a ground cable from there to the starter mounting bolt.

 

[imarobot]

Easy way to check for a bad ground isto just connect a battery jumper cable from the battery negative post to a good clean spot on the engine or starter.

 

[ruger1980]

First thing is to unload the parts cannon and then start testing with a multimeter. See attached

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I thought that showed there was a drain, ostensibly trying to activate the starter???

no, you need very little current ( say 1/10th of an amp to light up the dash but need 100s of AMPS to spin the starter. If you have 'high' resistance in the battery cables, you get a 'huge' voltage drop, so starter doesn't spin and the lights glow dim. a little resistance ,say 1/10th of an ohm (most meters can't see this) is enough to cause problems.

 

[imarobot]

There should be two cables coming off the positive post of the battery, a large gauge wire that goes directly to the starter and a smaller gauge wire that goes to supply 12V to all of the tractor electrical power. Both of these cables usually come off the same connector on the battery.
If the lights are dimming that much and the battery is known good, that would indicate that either the connection to the battery post for these cables is not making a good connection, something is drawing excessive current and significantly lowering the battery voltage, or there is a bad ground connection at the battery post or engine or starter.
If you have a volt meter measure the voltage from the battery positive post to the connector on the starter where the cable connects to it from the battery. If you get a large voltage drop there that would indicate a problem with the connection at either or both ends of the cable or a bad cable.
Do the same thing with the negative side, connect the voltmeter to the battery negative post and a good ground point on the engine and also starter. A large voltage drop there would indicate the same thing.
When taking these measurements be sure to connect the meter to the cable connection points, not on the cable itself. If you measure on the cable you would not detect a bad connection from the cable to the connection point.
If these look good, measure across the battery and see how much drop you are getting. A large voltage drop directly across the battery terminals would indicate a bad battery or a large current draw from the starter.
Also make sure you are taking all of these measurements while cranking the starter.

 

[GeoHorn]

There should be two cables coming off the positive post of the battery, a large gauge wire that goes directly to the starter and a smaller gauge wire that goes to supply 12V to all of the tractor electrical power. Both of these cables usually come off the same connector on the battery.
If the lights are dimming that much and the battery is known good, that would indicate that either the connection to the battery post for these cables is not making a good connection, something is drawing excessive current and significantly lowering the battery voltage, or there is a bad ground connection at the battery post or engine or starter.
If you have a volt meter measure the voltage from the battery positive post to the connector on the starter where the cable connects to it from the battery. If you get a large voltage drop there that would indicate a problem with the connection at either or both ends of the cable or a bad cable.
Do the same thing with the negative side, connect the voltmeter to the battery negative post and a good ground point on the engine and also starter. A large voltage drop there would indicate the same thing.
When taking these measurements be sure to connect the meter to the cable connection points, not on the cable itself. If you measure on the cable you would not detect a bad connection from the cable to the connection point.
If these look good, measure across the battery and see how much drop you are getting. A large voltage drop directly across the battery terminals would indicate a bad battery or a large current draw from the starter.
Also make sure you are taking all of these measurements while cranking the starter.

I have the brother-model, a M4700… virtually the same tractor except the rpm limiter is set higher for the M5400.
The battery has only one cable leaving the batt-post…the rest of the panel-circuit gets power from the positive-cable at the starter terminal.

The ONLY start-safety-switches on this model is beneath the rear at the Range-Selector mechanism (F-N-R) which may be by-passed with a jumper… and the PTO (which will be indicated on the dash-indicator-lamp… UNLESS the continuity of those circuits are broken. (unlikely since you can hear the starter-solenoid “click”. )

<EDIT> This tractor also has a STARTER RELAY inside the instrument cluster which will definitely mess with you when troubleshooting your starter. I will search for the discussion-thread where I addressed this and post it here:

Another No starter rotation thread

My M4700 is a pretty simple tractor...or so I thought... Only one safety switch activated by the range-lever (the forward-Reverse-Low-High selection lever) on this DT (manual transmission.). The neutral start safety switch is kind of troublesome to get to... and that was my suspicion because...

www.orangetractortalks.com

I also have a pdf of the WSM (sent a copy to the Wolf when I first joined this forum) and will be happy to share it if a pvt-msg to me includes your email addy.