Kubota bx 2370 steering issue

[NoBiffBetter]

My kubota bx has 500 hrs on it, I got it used with 400 hours on it and all it was ever used for was to mow with, I purchased a brand new loader for it after I bought it used off the gentleman.

Being that the previous owner did a lot of mowing with it I assume he did a lot of turning back and forth with it which I believe is how this part got worn out.

This picture shows the part/parts that I believe are worn out. When I turn left or right I can see that the steering cylinder is sliding side to side in the cylinder brackets which means either the brackets that hold the steering cylinder in place have wallowed out over time allowing the cylinder to slide back and forth OR the steering cylinder itself is worn down where the bracket is holding it which is allowing the cylinder to slide side to side in the brackets.

Has anybody ever had to replace either the steering cylinder or the cylinder brackets before?

The steering cylinder brackets which are about 8$ each hold the steering cylinder in place with just a couple of snap rings on the cylinder.. I was thinking about just trying to replace both brackets along with both snap rings first and seeing if that fixes the issue before purchasing a new cylinder which costs over $200 from what I remember.

Just curious if anyone else has had this issue. The tractor has done this ever since I’ve owned it so I’m just assuming it’s worn out but maybe this is normal? What happens is when the cylinder slides side to side in the brackets I can hear knocking sound and it’s starting to annoy me lol.

If this is normal then I guess I’ll just put up with it but I’m betting it’s worn out.

Thanks guys


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RCW]

Besides the steering cylinder moving back/forth, does the tractor steer as it should? How much does the cylinder move?

Have you checked the mounting bolts for the brackets to make sure all is tight? Do the brackets appear straight...i.e., not bent?

I'm guessing the snap ring you see holds a seal in the cylinder. It does not have anything to due with the bracket.

A BX is more prone to the seals internal to the cylinder leaking, meaning you turn the steering wheel and the fronts don't turn.

 

[NoBiffBetter]

Besides the steering cylinder moving back/forth, does the tractor steer as it should? How much does the cylinder move?



Have you checked the mounting bolts for the brackets to make sure all is tight? Do the brackets appear straight...i.e., not bent?



I'm guessing the snap ring you see holds a seal in the cylinder. It does not have anything to due with the bracket.



A BX is more prone to the seals internal to the cylinder leaking, meaning you turn the steering wheel and the fronts don't turn.

Mounting bolts are tight for the brackets, I’m 110% sure that the cylinder is sliding inside of the brackets cuz I have turned the wheel and watched it.. I can also pick up the front end with the loader and move the wheels side to side and can also watch the cylinder move inside the brackets.. the snap rings just hold the cylinder in place by having a snap ring on the cylinder which is on either sides of each bracket which is suppose to keep the cylinder from sliding in the brackets.. this is why I think that the brackets or the cylinder is worn out.. it could also be worn out snap rings but it’s hard to believe the snap rings would wear enough to produce play.

I have this happening on video but I’m not sure how I would show that to you guys

Edit: the tractor does turn as normal.. although when I turn from left to right quickly a clunk is heard from the cylinder moving inside the brackets.

I also have checked the tie rods and they are both good so they have nothing to do with the issue

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RCW]

This is my BX with 350 hours.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NoBiffBetter]

This is my BX with 350 hours.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the pic. If you notice on mine you can see a slight dusty rust ring where the cylinder sits inside the bracket.. I believe it is showing rust dust here because it proves to show that the cylinder is chafing inside of the mounting bracket.. I’m just not sure why.. or which part is the faulty part.. it can only be 1 of 3 things.. snap rings, mounting brackets, or cylinder .. or all 3 have worn together and all need replacement lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NoBiffBetter]

This is my BX with 350 hours.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you steer your wheel left to right and watch the cylinder on the bracket could you tell me if you see movement? That would be very helpful.. it’s kind of tough to do alone but I did it.. just get down aside your tractor with the engine running and stare at the cylinder and bracket as you reach up and steer the steering wheel left to right and see if you see movement.. if you do then I’m gonna assume mine is normal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RCW]

First - - look at a parts diagram:

https://apps.kubotausa.com/illustrated-parts/

Second - - I'm going WAY out on a limb, but I'm telling you the snap rings are NOT your problem. They are not meant for the lateral forces involved, and are actually a smaller diameter than your bracket bore. They're a cylinder part.

I'm wondering if somethings bent, a bushing missing, steering stop missing or not the same...just throwing out ideas...

 

[NoBiffBetter]

First - - look at a parts diagram:



https://apps.kubotausa.com/illustrated-parts/



Second - - I'm going WAY out on a limb, but I'm telling you the snap rings are NOT your problem. They are not meant for the lateral forces involved, and are actually a smaller diameter than your bracket bore. They're a cylinder part.



I'm wondering if somethings bent, a bushing missing, steering stop missing or not the same...just throwing out ideas...

Your right.. the snap rings are smaller diameter than the brackets are.. which does lead me to believe that maybe it’s a bad cylinder.. I wish I could show you guys the video I have of it cuz if you guys saw it do it like I do you would get what I’m trying to say


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RCW]

Just checked - - mine does move 1/16"-3/32" or so. Didn't measure, but not quite an 1/8" I'd guess..

 

[RCW]

I'm no expert with this video stuff, but I guess you put a video on youtube and post the link here.

 

[NoBiffBetter]

Just checked - - mine does move 1/16"-3/32" or so. Didn't measure, but not quite an 1/8" I'd guess..

That’s about what mine moves.. about 1/2 of an 8th inch. Maybe it’s normal then. Do you ever here yours clunk from time to time? It’s not super loud but I deff notice it. And thanks for checking man!

Maybe I’ll go to the kubota dealer and check out some new kubotas to see if they do the same thing. I’ll report back if I do lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NoBiffBetter]

I'm no expert with this video stuff, but I guess you put a video on youtube and post the link here.

I’ll see if I can do that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RCW]

Check to make sure your tie rod threads have a similar number of threads on each side.

Also, make sure you still have both of the steering stop bolts on the front hibs each side, and that they're at about the same setting.

 

[NoBiffBetter]

Check to make sure your tie rod threads have a similar number of threads on each side.



Also, make sure you still have both of the steering stop bolts on the front hibs each side, and that they're at about the same setting.

Well to make it happen all I gotta do is slightly move the wheel from left to right so it is no where near the steering stops..

The tie rods I already checked cuz I thought that too at first. they are original and are matching in threads and are still the originals. Both inner and outter tierods are deffienlty good. But maybe there is a bushing or something on that steering cylinder I didn’t see, I’ll have to give it a second look


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dave_eng]

The hidden snap rings do restrain the steering cylinder and manage the reaction forces as it pushes and pulls to turn the wheels.

However, these forces are small. Let me explain further. The steering cylinder is a double acting one but different than a loader cylinder where, because of the push rod diameter, the push and pull forces are different.

In this instance, the push and pull of the steering cylinder are the same as the push rods are present in each half of the cylinder. Because of principles like Ackerman steering where one wheel turns a greater angle than the other during a turn, the forces on each end of the steering cylinder will never be exactly the same hence the reaction forces born by the hidden snap rings.

Removing one bracket would let you examine the snap rings and their respective groves. I think you will find everything OK. The design would incorporate some play to accommodate the thermal expansion of the cylinder.

Eliminate the play and you may impose forces on the cylinder which result in greater problems.

Dave

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

99% of the time the the brackets are just bent out a little, this allows the cylinder to move a little.

Take both inside snap rings off, move the cylinder to one side or the other, when the bracket is free of the cylinder, use a hammer and tweek the bracket towards the inside, do the same for the other side, loosen all 4 bolts reinstall the snap rings and tighten the brackets down play will be gone.

 

[NoBiffBetter]

The hidden snap rings do restrain the steering cylinder and manage the reaction forces as it pushes and pulls to turn the wheels.



However, these forces are small. Let me explain further. The steering cylinder is a double acting one but different than a loader cylinder where, because of the push rod diameter, the push and pull forces are different.



In this instance, the push and pull of the steering cylinder are the same as the push rods are present in each half of the cylinder. Because of principles like Ackerman steering where one wheel turns a greater angle than the other during a turn, the forces on each end of the steering cylinder will never be exactly the same hence the reaction forces born by the hidden snap rings.



Removing one bracket would let you examine the snap rings and their respective groves. I think you will find everything OK. The design would incorporate some play to accommodate the thermal expansion of the cylinder.



Eliminate the play and you may impose forces on the cylinder which result in greater problems.



Dave

Thanks for all the info man this was great and a great view of what Iv been trying to explain... so I’m assuming then there needs to be SOME play in order to dampen the force to the steering cylinder BUT the million $ question is how much play is too much play.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NoBiffBetter]

99% of the time the the brackets are just bent out a little, this allows the cylinder to move a little.



Take both inside snap rings off, move the cylinder to one side or the other, when the bracket is free of the cylinder, use a hammer and tweek the bracket towards the inside, do the same for the other side, loosen all 4 bolts reinstall the snap rings and tighten the brackets down play will be gone.

Thanks man, this actually makes the most sense to me.. if the mounts have slightly bent or spread out then the cylinder would prolly have more play back and forth or side to side.. since the mounts are only 8$ each and the snap rings are only 2$ each i was thinking just buying 2 new mounts and 2 new snap rings just to eliminate nay further issues.. and then if it still have an issue which I doubt I will then I would have to finally rule that the cylinder snap ring grooves have worn.. OR that maybe it really just should have this much play side to side and it’s fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wbk]

What you can do is flip the bracket around I believe on the left side, on the right side put it in a vise and with a few not so gentle taps it'll straighten out. In order to get the brackets off your going to have to break the tie rod out of the steering arm, remove the cotter pin loosen the nut (don't remove the nut just yet) using your hammer hit the end of the steering arm (this will squeeze the tie rod out of the arm) now remove the nut (that's in case your aim is off and you hit the threads) undo the steering cylinder bracket and slide it over the tie rod end flip one around and straighten the other. It's not a hard job it just takes a little patience, have fun.

 

[Dave_eng]

Thanks for all the info man this was great and a great view of what Iv been trying to explain... so I’m assuming then there needs to be SOME play in order to dampen the force to the steering cylinder BUT the million $ question is how much play is too much play.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Look at the front rims. If none have any physical damage from running into something, find another aspect of your tractor to focus on. If being rigidly fastened was a requirement for the steering cylinder , Kubota would have designed more substantial brackets.

Dave