Garden question

[Benhameen]

Ok so I've been a gardener for at least 10years. I've been using the same location almost all those years. I will rotate where in the garden I put which plants. In the first few the weeds in the dead of summer almost kept me from gardening anymore, but I moved more toward a square foot gardening style and away from traditional row gardening. Along with that and adding landscape fabric with mulch at the time that I plant has really made it much more enjoyable for me.

Now my issue isn't with my garden but my girl friends garden. She bought a home last year with 3 nice square foot garden beds already in place. I walked her through the process last year and she had great results. However this year she is not having much success. We bought our plants at the same place and planted on the same day. The crazy part is, my plants are producing and are about 1/3 the size of hers, while her plants are very large but not producing any vegetables.

Any idea as to why?

 

[sheepfarmer]

Look for differences in soil (fertilizer), amount of sun, and water. The summers we have lots of rain and cool weather the tomato plants get six feet tall, and few tomatoes. Your two gardens are presumably having roughly the same day and night temps, but shade might be different.

I am curious about what you mean by square foot gardening. I too am battling the weeds, have roughly the same style garden with weed mat to walk on between rows, and 5 bales of straw that I mulch with as soon as the seedlings are up. Big problem is burrowing creatures that run under the rows and kill seedlings or eat the seeds. Any ideas?

 

[Daren Todd]

What veggies are you talking about? That will help narrow down the issue

I'm with sheep farmer though. Too much fertilizer, or the wrong fertilizer can cause the plant to get huge but not produce very much.

Here, we've got the perfect area to grow Mater's and melons. Off from six tomato plants, we get covered up to where the neighbors are sick of them also

I'll use a bloom boosting fertilizer from miracle grow on the Mater's a couple times a week, and water when needed depending on the weather. I also will use that fertilizer on melons, squash, cucumbers, ect...

For mater's, squash, and melons I'll give them a couple tums once a week as well to cut down on the fruit splitting.

 

[RCW]

There may be too much nitrogen at her spot for what's planted. Different veggies react differently.

Heavy N encourages more plant growth. Don't remember the key functions of the P and K components.

When I was in college, my grandparents converted part of our former night cow pasture to a garden.

Had 5 foot tall pepper plants for a couple years without a pepper on them.

 

[Benhameen]

Ok so the soil is certainly different, her is what the previous owner put into the boxes, not really sure of what exactly it is. Mine is hard clay but like I said it has been used as a garden for a number of years. We both use regular miracle grow about once a week. Mine is planted beside by barn so most of it doesn't get evening sun. Hers are in a fenced in back yard that get most of the day's sun. She probably waters a little more often than I do. She waters in the miring and usually in the evening. I water when I can and normally just go by whether or not the dirt is dry or not under the mulch and fabric.

http://www.squarefootgardening.com/

Here is a link to what square foot gardening is. That's the first I've seen the website, I have the book. Basically it just breaks it down to know how much room you need per plant to utilize your space more effectively. Her garden, see attached pic, is exactly what the book talks about. Raised beds that you never step foot in. Mine on the other hand is a space that's 8'wide by 40' long. I use the same principles it's just not broke out into 4x4 squares.

Ive always bought my plants from a local nursery so I can't comment on critters eating the seedlings.

Here is a list of the veggies in both gardens.
Squash crooked neck and speghetti
Zucchini yellow and green
Cucumbers, vine type
Peppers, different types of bell
Tomatoes. Jet star maybe? Can't remember, would have to look
I believe that's it.

Replying from my phone so I can think I have pics I'll share just to give you a visual.

Couldn't find a decent pic of mine but the one I posted is of the trellis I have to grow vertically.

 

[Benhameen]

Her garden

 

[Benhameen]

RCW, I think I'll pick up a ph test kit and test both our soils to see what is different. If hers is in fact high in nitrogen, what if anything can be done at this point to help the garden produce? Add fertilizer that's high in the other two but low of nitrogen?

Thanks.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Benhameen those are nice looking gardens IMHO, I would do nothing to hers except maybe less miracle grow if high in nitrogen. It's early in the summer yet, at least where I am, plenty of time for those plants to bloom and set fruit. Could be a blessing if yours are ahead and hers come later, would extend the shareable harvest

Thanks for the square foot garden link! Interesting.

 

[Benhameen]

Sheep farmer, thanks I'll take a better pic of mine and post it. It's nothing special but I sure like to put in a little extra work in the beginning to save a lot of headache with the weeds when it hot as h...

Bought a soil test kit and if I did it correctly it came back with some interesting results. I did it multi times to make sure.

Ph- 7.5 alkaline

Nitrogen- depleted, showed the lowest level in the chart. Did it 3x

Phosphorus- sufficient.

Potassium- surplus. This one I did about 5x because it just didn't seem right.

To be honest, I'm more confused than before. Lol

 

[Benhameen]

Took this at 6:30 my time. As you can see I get the evening shade.

I love peppers so I planted 20 bells.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Her garden is getting too hot, the refection off of the white house is cooking them.
Put a up a light brown trellis next to the house and see if that helps!

 

[RCW]

Bought a soil test kit

Ph- 7.5 alkaline

Nitrogen- depleted, showed the lowest level in the chart. Did it 3x

Phosphorus- sufficient.

Potassium- surplus. This one I did about 5x because it just didn't seem right.

Ben - was this your spot or hers?

I would disagree with Wolfman on this one - most garden plants are engineered for full sun. I don't think there is an issue with her spot.

 

[Benhameen]

Ben - was this your spot or hers?

I would disagree with Wolfman on this one - most garden plants are engineered for full sun. I don't think there is an issue with her spot.

Sorry, this was her garden and I have to agree with you vs wolf man. Her garden produced very well last year in exact same spot.

 

[Daren Todd]

Ben - was this your spot or hers?

I would disagree with Wolfman on this one - most garden plants are engineered for full sun. I don't think there is an issue with her spot.

It all depends on the location in the country We have to have afternoon shade for our gardens or certain plants will burn But in this case, I would think it has more to do with a fertilizer or water issue.

 

[zload]

Those do it yourself soil tests can provide some info but don't really help with the action plan on what to correct. You might check and see if you have a county/state agriculture extension office that does a soil test for a small fee and offers both detailed analysis as well as what actions you should take to correct any issues.

I doubt too much sun is an issue, heat maybe but if you are in the same general area that is probably not a variable between the two.

I would think it is likely a nutrient issue, or possibly she is watering or fertilizing differently than you are. Big plants no fruit is usually a nutrient issue with too much Nitrogen being the most common issue.

 

[toxcrusadr]

Agree with the above post.

Nitrogen will leach out much faster than other nutrients so if it's excessive, just wait.

P is related to blooming and fruiting. Note it is the least leachable and can build up particularly in clay soils. Good reason to have a lab soil test if you have been adding P to clay for a long time. Excess can actually cause problems of its own.

K I think is related to stem structure and such, and will also build up in clay soils.

I added nothing but compost to my heavy clay for 20 yrs, excellent texture now but ended up with very high P and K. I cut back on compost and use last years leaves for mulch instead of lawn clippings. Compost is great for clay, just dial back when it gets pretty rich. Note there is a lot more to making healthy soil than just NPK. Compost has a whole range of micronutrients and microbes that mediate nutrient transfer.

I'd get a good soil test for PK, Ca/Mg/other micros, pH and organic matter. N is usually optional and is so leachable and variable it doesn't tell you a lot. If your plants look peaked, add some. Ask the lab for recommendations for vegetable gardening.

Watch out for tree roots. They can suck the life out of a bed.

What's the formula on the Miracle Gro you are using?

 

[Benhameen]

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

Her soil is a mixture that was already there when she bought the place. I plan to get the soil tested after the garden is done and do what is nessessary to fix it.

My soil on the other hand is heavy clay and I have added compost over the years.

When I did the test on her soil myself it shows no nitrogen, which makes sense I guess with what you said.

Guess I would like to know what the best plan of action would be to help the garden produce this year.

Here is what is listed on the miracle grow.
24-8-16

Thanks.

 

[RCW]

Here is what is listed on the miracle grow.
24-8-16

That might be the culprit. A you know, fertilizer is rated as its N-P-K value.

 

[Benhameen]

That might be the culprit. A you know, fertilizer is rated as its N-P-K value.

I am aware of how it is rated. What would your suggestion be as far as how to help the situation at the moment?

Thanks.

 

[RCW]

Honestly Ben, given we're into July, I think the plants there might be a lost cause.

May need to re-plant and go with a 10-10-10 or similar. She can still have some production this year. Shorter rotation tomatoes, beans, crookneck squash, zucchini, etc. will still work this year.

Word of caution, my college Botany and Soils courses were too long ago to make that advice reliable. I also got away from gardening several years ago myself, but have had to re-plant late due to a wet spring with success.

I would be curious what zload and toxcrusadr think.

Good luck!