Newbie question regarding rear auxiliary/remote valves (B2301)

[ORANGE4EVER]

Hey everyone! I'm a proud new owner of a 2021 B2301 and had a question regarding rear aux remotes controls. I did not opt for the rear remotes when I purchased the tractor simply because money lol. I do intend on adding perhaps 2 sets in the near future and based on my research it's something I would likely install myself.

I'm looking at this kit -> https://summit-hydraulics.com/produ...ing-directional-control-valve-2-spool-15-gpm/

My question is related to the type of valve required. When looking at the kit above, I have the option of choosing type A for cylinders and D for motors. For the functions I'm looking to add looks like I'd need one A type and one D type since I want to have the ability to control a cylinder (blower deflector during winter and top-link during summer) and a motor (blower rotation during winter). Does that make sense?

My other option is getting 2 OEM aux/rear-remote kits from Kubota but I'm not sure if like the above I have the option of choosing A or D for valves that come with these kits. Would the OEM valves be appropriate for controlling both hydraulic cylinders (top-link, blower deflector) and hydraulic motors (blower chute rotation)? Just want to confirm I could connect either a motor or cylinder to the OEM valve or if I need a different type of valve depending on the function.

Cheers!!

 

[Dave_eng]

The motor valves are only necessary for rotational loads with a lot of momentum. An example would be a hydraulically driven bush hog.

A snow blower chute rotator motor does not have any momentum to speak of.
Further, your tractor does not have the hydraulic flow to drive much of a motor load. 8.3 USGPM at max engine speed.

Here is the explanation of the difference between motor and cylinder spools

Cylinder spool: work ports blocked in neutral.
Motor spool: work ports connected to tank in neutral.

Do you have a loader?

On many Kubota's the best instructions for installing rear remotes are found in the loader assembly instruction manual.

The more common rear remote choices have to do with having a float function and or a detent position.

Do not treat installing these remotes as a simple job. Many have tried and come back to the forum having dead headed the pump and destroyed it. I always say hydraulic work is not a lets try this and see what happens.

Your electric Summit valve is not the type normally used for rear remotes. Further, a 15 gpm valve is too big. The downside of a too large hydraulic valve is that you will not be able to make small controlled movements to adjust implement positions.

Dave

 

[TheOldHokie]

The motor valves are only necessary for rotational loads with a lot of momentum. An example would be a hydraulically driven bush hog.

A snow blower chute rotator motor does not have any momentum to speak of.
Further, your tractor does not have the hydraulic flow to drive much of a motor load. 8.3 USGPM at max engine speed.

Here is the explanation of the difference between motor and cylinder spools

Cylinder spool: work ports blocked in neutral.
Motor spool: work ports connected to tank in neutral.

Do you have a loader?

On many Kubota's the best instructions for installing rear remotes are found in the loader assembly instruction manual.

The more common rear remote choices have to do with having a float function and or a detent position.

Do not treat installing these remotes as a simple job. Many have tried and come back to the forum having dead headed the pump and destroyed it. I always say hydraulic work is not a lets try this and see what happens.

Your electric Summit valve is not the type normally used for rear remotes. Further, a 15 gpm valve is too big. The downside of a too large hydraulic valve is that you will not be able to make small controlled movements to adjust implement positions.

Dave

What Dave said - you want cylinder spools. I will also add that regardless of flow rating electric valves are all or none. When you hit the switch they are either fully open or fully closed. You have no ability to throttle actuator speed.

Summit's 11 GPM manual P40 valves with optional power beyond would be appropriate as remotes for your tractor.

You will need to educate yourself on the plumbing of open center valves before diving in. Summit has some pretty good diagrams showing how to plumb the power beyond circuits on their website.

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re:
electric valves are all or none. When you hit the switch they are either fully open or fully closed. You have no ability to throttle actuator speed.

yes, true if wired per instructions... switch---> valve

if you add a small 'computer' in between, you can get great ,precise control of the valve. $20 in parts and some 'code'.

 

[TheOldHokie]

re:
electric valves are all or none. When you hit the switch they are either fully open or fully closed. You have no ability to throttle actuator speed.

yes, true if wired per instructions... switch---> valve

if you add a small 'computer' in between, you can get great ,precise control of the valve. $20 in parts and some 'code'.

"Yes true". But these systems do not have that capability and the end users are not capable of building that "small computer".

Dan

 

[ORANGE4EVER]

Thanks everyone for the great advice! It's much appreciated!

Thanks for the explanation of the different valve types for motors and cylinders. Cylinder Spool Valve is what I would need. Am I right in assuming that the flow rating of the valves have to be as close as possible to the flow rating of the tractor's Hydraulic Pump? In my case like 8.3 GPM?

To answer Dave's question, yes, I do have a FEL and understand I have the option to tie into that system to install my remotes. I also have a backhoe (BH70) and understand from the research I've done that I could also tie-in/use the backhoe's hydraulic lines and make my remote valve(s) detachable. The small motor for blower chute rotation would only be connected with the blower with no backhoe installed during winter.

Now while I like the idea of being able to remove the remote valves when not required, if would ever want to have a cylinder to control my current mechanical thumb on the backhoe that setup would not work. If money wasn't an issue I'd simply go with the OEM aux valve kits because they're nicely hidden/tucked in but holy geez they are pricey.

Decisions decisions lol.

Oh and I fully understand that any hydraulic projects should be property thought through. I for sure would not simply dive into connecting things to my tractor without ensuring it's properly designed from the start.

I will give this some more thought and will make sure to take all your advice into consideration. I have already installed an electric actuator for the blower's chute deflector as well as a power-window motor for the chute rotation, but I'm not sure if the window motor will last long when there's ice-build ups and such. Time will tell. It hasn't snowed much this year around the Ottawa area but regardless it seams I could definitively benefit from having at least 1 set of rear-aux remotes.

Again, thanks for your help fellas!

Cheers!

Frank

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks everyone for the great advice! It's much appreciated!

Thanks for the explanation of the different valve types for motors and cylinders. Cylinder Spool Valve is what I would need. Am I right in assuming that the flow rating of the valves have to be as close as possible to the flow rating of the tractor's Hydraulic Pump? In my case like 8.3 GPM?

To answer Dave's question, yes, I do have a FEL and understand I have the option to tie into that system to install my remotes. I also have a backhoe (BH70) and understand from the research I've done that I could also tie-in/use the backhoe's hydraulic lines and make my remote valve(s) detachable. The small motor for blower chute rotation would only be connected with the blower with no backhoe installed during winter.

Now while I like the idea of being able to remove the remote valves when not required, if would ever want to have a cylinder to control my current mechanical thumb on the backhoe that setup would not work. If money wasn't an issue I'd simply go with the OEM aux valve kits because they're nicely hidden/tucked in but holy geez they are pricey.

Decisions decisions lol.

Oh and I fully understand that any hydraulic projects should be property thought through. I for sure would not simply dive into connecting things to my tractor without ensuring it's properly designed from the start.

I will give this some more thought and will make sure to take all your advice into consideration. I have already installed an electric actuator for the blower's chute deflector as well as a power-window motor for the chute rotation, but I'm not sure if the window motor will last long when there's ice-build ups and such. Time will tell. It hasn't snowed much this year around the Ottawa area but regardless it seams I could definitively benefit from having at least 1 set of rear-aux remotes.

Again, thanks for your help fellas!

Cheers!

Frank

The flow rating of the valve is not critical. and the published ratings are only ball park numbers to begin with,

The tractor's hydraulic flow is proportional to engine RPM so at 2400 your tractor is producing 8+ GPM. At 1200 its down to 4 GPM. An 8-10 GPM valve is plenty large enough. A 20 GPM valve is overkill and will be physically large and unwieldy to mount.

The simplest and least expensive way to add remotes to your tractor is to mount your auxiliary valve next to the loader valve. Use the power beyond port on the loader valve to supply it and use the power beyond port on the aux valve to return flow to the tractor. That's exactly how the OEM valves are added into the system.

I'd also suggest you consider spending a small amount more up front and purchase a sectional rather than monoblock. valve for the remotes. You could start with a single section valve and if down the road you decided you needed more you could add additional sections for just the incremental cost of the sections. It will also give you a broader range of choices in the types of spools and operators. The OEM valves are sectionals which is why you get to choose a spool and operator type for each position in the valve. Still way less expensive than the OEM valves. The only thing you are losing is the nicely integrated OEM mounting and if you are a neat plumber your aftermarket valves will look almost as good.

EDIT: Well smack me!!! I just looked at the parts diagrams for that tractor and its not at all what I expected. It looks like the back hoe is plumbed ahead of the loader valve and teh OEM remotes are installed between the back hoe and the loader. It doesn't change my basic premise but it does mean the valve mounting and plumbing would have to be revised.

Dan