Brake problems

[hd6b]

Hi all

I have a year old L4802 with manual transmission. The machines brakes will not hold on hills and will roll backwards. I actually bent up my rotary mower rolling into a tree. Forward the brakes work fine and will lock up. The dealer has looked at it 3 times and said that they feel that it will not brake as well in reverse as going forward. The machine is unsafe anyone else have this problem. Thanks

 

[The Evil Twin]

Calling it "unsafe" is a stretch. Operating a tractor is unsafe.
You shouldn't park on a hill unless the machine is perpendicular. Never rely on a parking brake on any incline,
Will the brakes hold the machine if you have your foot on the pedal? May just need adjustment. Can't say I can get my tractor tires to lock up forward or backward.

 

[hd6b]

I don’t park on a hill nor do I rely on the parking brake. I can’t stop at all on a hill without rolling backwards regardless of how much pressure I apply to the brakes. I can’t even lock individual wheels up on level ground ( dirt ) when rolling backwards forward they lock up fine.

 

[RCW]

I don’t park on a hill nor do I rely on the parking brake. I can’t stop at all on a hill without rolling backwards regardless of how much pressure I apply to the brakes. I can’t even lock individual wheels up on level ground ( dirt ) when rolling backwards forward they lock up fine.

If you don't park on a hill nor rely on the brake, then how does it roll?

In 50+ years driving tractors, I've NEVER relied on tractor brakes for much.

Tractor brakes are not like a modern car or truck.

If you're parking it, the tractor should be put in gear and shut off. You can't rely on brakes to hold it in place, nor do you want to.

Don't mean to sound derogatory, but have you ever operated a gear-driven tractor (or car/truck) before?

If not, you've got a lot to learn. If you have, you have a lot to learn.

There's places/circumstances you need to pay attention to with a geared tractor (well, any tractor really).

The LAST thing you want to do on a slope is push in the clutch and allow the tractor to free-wheel and rely on brakes. That's how people get injured or killed......

Keep it in gear and let the tractor "chew" through it. Get yourself to Safe Ground.

If steep enough to roll, I'd put it in 4WD as well. You only have brakes on the rear.

4WD will "tie" the front wheels with the back when operating. Good practice doing loader work on slopes as well.

 

[hd6b]

I am mowing a hill that ends abruptly at the top and have to mow in reverse when i hit the top. The hill is too steep to mow any other way than up and down. I am 64 years old and have owned well over 30 farm tractors. Amazing that the Kubota has manual brakes. My 60 year old John deere tractors have hydraulic brakes. Regardless it should stop good on level ground rolling backwards and don’t. I have been using the john deeres to mow it but thought 4wd would be better which it is aside from the brake problem.

 

[Russell King]

My brakes will stop my tractor in either direction. Mine are a disk brake of some kind and squeal in reverse but not as much in forwards. But I don’t have steep hills to go up and back down in reverse. They will not stop the tractor if it is in low gear in either direction on flat ground, tractor has more power than brakes!

I just think that having brakes that would lock the wheels in reverse might not be desirable or it might be able to turn you over in a wheelie action! But you should be able to use them to slow the speed down somewhat.

I back my tractor off a wooden park platform and use the lowest reverse gear to back down it and that is slower than just rolling down with it freewheeling.

How do you go from forward gear up to reverse gear down hill now? Or is that the major problem, you have to free wheel in reverse because your brakes can’t stop tractor uphill and can’t hold it with clutch depressed?

 

[Shawn T. W]

Not an answer, but maybe a different approach, literally ... Would it be possible to back up the hill, then come down the hill forward?

Doesn't make sense to me why they would work in one direction, but not the other, unless there is only one shoe inside of a drum ... I have no clue really how those brakes work though.

 

[chim]

hd6b stops on a hill. Many good reasons to stop. Fawn in the way, cell phone popped out of the pocket, sudden discovery of a rock. He isn't setting up a camp, reading the newspaper or jumping off to take a dump. It's reasonable to believe the tractor should stay put as long as a foot is firmly on the brake pedal.

 

[Russell King]

Not an answer, but maybe a different approach, literally ... Would it be possible to back up the hill, then come down the hill forward?

Doesn't make sense to me why they would work in one direction, but not the other, unless there is only one shoe inside of a drum ... I have no clue really how those brakes work though.

I looked at how his brakes are arranged and they are double disks on both sides so four disks total. The two disks are able to slide along the axle and are squeezed between steel rings. The one thing I can see that might be fighting the stop in reverse is the way the steel rings are moved. There appears to be several ramps on one of the disks that compress everything. The way they are sloped seems that forward motion may help force them tighter, while reverse movement seems like it would force the ring to loosen somewhat.

I would think that that much surface area on the four disks should be able to hold the tractor, but maybe not enough to stop it if rolling back down a hill.

I think you might want to try adjusting the linkages tighter which seems like the dealer would have already done. You may get someone with stronger legs to see if they can get it to stop rolling backwards and see if that is an issue. I didn’t look real hard at the linkages but there might be a way to increase the forces on the brakes with lengthening one or more of the lever arms. You might be able to rig up some lever to pull with your hands to assist with your leg action and increase power to the brakes?

Good luck on getting it working better in your particular situation.

 

[The Evil Twin]

OK, I think u understand what you are saying now. The pedal is useless when rolling backwards? That does seem really strange.

 

[hd6b]

Yes it does slow it down some. Kinda reminds me of an old vehicle with drum brakes and no power snd you went through a big puddle. You would have to ride them to dry them off or it wouldn’t stop very good. Kinda sucks spending 47000 and having brake issues. Kubota feels the problem but tells me that it’s normal for the brakes not to work well rolling backwards. That’s not the answer.

 

[jaxs]

Yes it does slow it down some. Kinda reminds me of an old vehicle with drum brakes and no power snd you went through a big puddle. You would have to ride them to dry them off or it wouldn’t stop very good. Kinda sucks spending 47000 and having brake issues. Kubota feels the problem but tells me that it’s normal for the brakes not to work well rolling backwards. That’s not the answer.

Has the dealer put that in writing or furnished you printed material from Kubota to that effect? I'm betting no and I don't believe they will. You need to send return receipt requested letter to dealer asking them to go on the record with their answer. If they accommodate , contact Corporate to see how they feel. I'd tell them you need this for a potential buyer of your tractor who is objecting. Or you could tell them you don't want to face liability alone if one of your helpers is injured. I think you will hear a totally different story from that approach.

 

[Shawn T. W]

Has the dealer actually "tested" it on an incline? Or just put it in reverse and then push in the clutch and hit the brakes in there level parking lot?

The weight of the tractor and brush hog along with the gravity, is the condition they need to test it at, if they don't have a hill ... Invite them to your place, or if they have like a tilt bed wrecker use that to test it ...

I like the idea of a written statement from them, which I doubt they will do! Because it is not right, or safe ... If you can't hold a tractor on a hill just because the front is higher than the back, there is something wrong with it!!!

 

[RCW]

I owe @hd6b an apology - - my post came across way too harsh.

It's obviously not his first day in the saddle. He's my age and been around tractors.

That said, just because we've done something for 40+ years doesn't mean it's the prudent or safe way. ("This is how I do this".....I've been there myself.... )

I've known way too many people hurt or killed in tractor or farm-related accidents.

Like I said, I don't trust tractor brakes much. Learned the hard way on old tractors.

A new machine should hold on a reasonable slope, though.

This sounds like a very difficult spot, and if @hd6b says it's steep......betting it's quite steep.

If possible, I would like to see a picture of the area you're mowing. Might help with the assessing the brake issue.

Don't mean to sound over-cautionary.

Again - - my apologies and be safe.

 

[hd6b]

No were good. I understand where you’re coming from. The slope is steep as are many of the hills around by me. I am not relying on the brakes solely but they wont even work correctly on level ground rolling backwards. I have had even old 8n tractors with axle seal leaks that the brakes worked better.