I'm a new owner of a B6100 D with loader and B670 backhoe and not sure what PTO setting to run backhoe. Is it low(letter or number hard to read),2nd or high or 3rd (letter or number hard to read)? Can running it in the wrong setting cause a problem? Thanks for your help!
B6100D, B670 Backhoe what speed to run PTO
- Thread starter X32
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I'm new too, and have a BX25D,so it may be different, but the PTO isn't used when I'm using the backhoe, so it should be off. The speed of the backhoe is controlled by the throttle and operates only on the hydraulics. The dealer said at least 2000 rpm, and the manual says no faster than you can control without jerking the backhoe as that's hard on the hydraulics. Hope that helps.
I run my PTO in low gear, then throttle up to ~2000 when using the BH. Pretty sure the older multi-speed PTO's are set up to get 540 in 1st gear. Try it and let us know. If I run in 2nd the functions are too fast and not strong enough, just like trying to drive in too high of gear for the job at hand.
Lil Foot
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
With the B670, the PTO is necessary, because it runs the hydraulic pump for the backhoe. I (and the previous owner) have never used anything but the highest PTO speed at about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle, but others have stated they never run anything but the lowest PTO speed. So maybe it's a personal preference- the swing can be a little fast on these, but I just feather the controls lightly during swing, the speed of the other functions are much more reasonable & easily controlled.
This has been discussed before:
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12687&highlight=speed+b670
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10527&highlight=speed+b670
This has been discussed before:
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12687&highlight=speed+b670
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10527&highlight=speed+b670
thanks for the replies to me it seems that my backhoe runs the best at the fastest speed so as long as it's not hurting anything I guess that's where it will run
Running the (1) PTO to power the (2) hydraulic pump to (3) furnish fluid to the backhoe at different speeds will vary the volume of fluid pumped, not the pressure. Yes, a slight pressure difference but theoretically of no consequence in this discussion.
Running at high engine RPMs will make the backhoe jerky unless you have a fine touch on the controls. Which you get only by practice, a lot of practice.
I tend to throttle back and take it easy and not bump into things or mess up the sidewalls. Working slower is also easier on the entire machine: no or reduced shock loads on pins and bushings and bolts and weldments.
If trenching commercially where time is money and you're digging ten hours a day, run it up and get after it. For most of us, a backhoe is a convenience item and a few extra minutes per hole isn't that big a deal. Especially if working alongside something like a block wall or house you don't want to dent.
Please post back your ultimate diagnosis and resolution along with continuing experiences so we may all learn.
Running at high engine RPMs will make the backhoe jerky unless you have a fine touch on the controls. Which you get only by practice, a lot of practice.
I tend to throttle back and take it easy and not bump into things or mess up the sidewalls. Working slower is also easier on the entire machine: no or reduced shock loads on pins and bushings and bolts and weldments.
If trenching commercially where time is money and you're digging ten hours a day, run it up and get after it. For most of us, a backhoe is a convenience item and a few extra minutes per hole isn't that big a deal. Especially if working alongside something like a block wall or house you don't want to dent.
Please post back your ultimate diagnosis and resolution along with continuing experiences so we may all learn.
update:
I decided that the performance of my backhoe was not satisfactory so I decided to take apart my one hydraulic cylinder that I thought performed the worst to see what it looked like.
I was surprised on how badly worn all the seals were, all the edges were completely gone and the seals were original (the diagnoses of original seals is from observations that there were no scratches on the area around the dust seal that would happen when removing original, how brutal the O-rings were, and overall how worn-out everything was) so I decided to replace them and then check out the next worst performing cylinder and it was just as bad ... I now have rebuilt all 11 hydraulic cylinders and I figured while I was at it might as well paint them ...and then the hydraulic cylinders look so good that I realized I had the paint the rest of the tractor ...and having everything apart I realize that I should just rebuild the whole darn thing LOL.
... So I'm hoping that by this weekend I have everything back together and I can't wait to see how it performs I know it's going to look great but, hummm, ... How will it perform is the question ... I sure hope it was worth it!
questions:
When seals have completely lost there "edge" and are replaced how much better is performance/power?
I have not yet rebuilt the control valves I suspect they're pretty bad I'm so anxious to start using the tractor that I like to put that off rebuilding it for now,how much performance is lost as a result if those O-rings are all original and 30 years old(btw none of my O-rings thus far in the rebuild were broken or visually damaged but all were much harder than the replaced O-rings from the Kubota rebuild kits and only one of my loader O-rings "collar" was missing)?
Love to hear anyone that has "real" experience of performance/power differences after rebuild.
Thank you kindly for your feedback
I decided that the performance of my backhoe was not satisfactory so I decided to take apart my one hydraulic cylinder that I thought performed the worst to see what it looked like.
I was surprised on how badly worn all the seals were, all the edges were completely gone and the seals were original (the diagnoses of original seals is from observations that there were no scratches on the area around the dust seal that would happen when removing original, how brutal the O-rings were, and overall how worn-out everything was) so I decided to replace them and then check out the next worst performing cylinder and it was just as bad ... I now have rebuilt all 11 hydraulic cylinders and I figured while I was at it might as well paint them ...and then the hydraulic cylinders look so good that I realized I had the paint the rest of the tractor ...and having everything apart I realize that I should just rebuild the whole darn thing LOL.
... So I'm hoping that by this weekend I have everything back together and I can't wait to see how it performs I know it's going to look great but, hummm, ... How will it perform is the question ... I sure hope it was worth it!
questions:
When seals have completely lost there "edge" and are replaced how much better is performance/power?
I have not yet rebuilt the control valves I suspect they're pretty bad I'm so anxious to start using the tractor that I like to put that off rebuilding it for now,how much performance is lost as a result if those O-rings are all original and 30 years old(btw none of my O-rings thus far in the rebuild were broken or visually damaged but all were much harder than the replaced O-rings from the Kubota rebuild kits and only one of my loader O-rings "collar" was missing)?
Love to hear anyone that has "real" experience of performance/power differences after rebuild.
Thank you kindly for your feedback
Lil Foot
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
Don't you just hate "cascade" repairs? They're great when it's over, but trying & expensive to complete.
When I rebuilt my B670, there was a noticeable difference in power, most notably in down pressure & crowd, but the biggest difference for me was the leaks all stopped. Mine operated fairly well before rebuild, but leaked like a sieve from just about everywhere. Now I have a couple of minor seeps, mostly the swing cylinders, (the worst condition cylinders) but far better than it was.
When I rebuilt my B670, there was a noticeable difference in power, most notably in down pressure & crowd, but the biggest difference for me was the leaks all stopped. Mine operated fairly well before rebuild, but leaked like a sieve from just about everywhere. Now I have a couple of minor seeps, mostly the swing cylinders, (the worst condition cylinders) but far better than it was.
Lil Foot
That's so surprising to me that yours was leaking so bad because mine was not which is really a surprise to me yes I've had a few drips but I'm not sure if I should even call them drips more like "moist oil areas" nothing where there would be noticeable or even any oil under the backhoe while operating or sitting.
However overnight the loader would drop a bit probably take about a week to drop all the way down and backhoe would initially drop very fast, like in 15 minutes about a foot or two but then the remaining would drop very slow not sure what that means but what's puzzling is your experiences versus mine. However my weakest link is similar to yours if I understand correctly and that is the curl of my hoe and it's encouraging to hear that's what you experienced the most improvement in. I got my fingers crossed thanks kindly for the reply
That's so surprising to me that yours was leaking so bad because mine was not which is really a surprise to me yes I've had a few drips but I'm not sure if I should even call them drips more like "moist oil areas" nothing where there would be noticeable or even any oil under the backhoe while operating or sitting.
However overnight the loader would drop a bit probably take about a week to drop all the way down and backhoe would initially drop very fast, like in 15 minutes about a foot or two but then the remaining would drop very slow not sure what that means but what's puzzling is your experiences versus mine. However my weakest link is similar to yours if I understand correctly and that is the curl of my hoe and it's encouraging to hear that's what you experienced the most improvement in. I got my fingers crossed thanks kindly for the reply
Lil Foot
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
X32- The backhoe drifting down slowed after rebuild, but did not stop. As near as I can figure, they all do it. That's why I made up a retainer chain as shown in post #64.
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5482&highlight=backhoe+rebuild&page=7
Mine was leaking about a quart a day if in use, less if parked. Now Maybe 2 drops a day.
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5482&highlight=backhoe+rebuild&page=7
Mine was leaking about a quart a day if in use, less if parked. Now Maybe 2 drops a day.
Just finished putting the loader back together with all hydraulic cylinders rebuilt and to test it I put 3 200 pound friends in the bucket and it lifted them like they weren't in the bucket so it seems that so far rebuild has gone well but I wonder does it really run that much better or is it the "washed car psychological thing that happens after you wash your car and it seems to run better".
I must say I do really like the way it looks now I have noticed however that the Kubota paint takes probably about 2 weeks in the hot sun before it really hardens up and I think it still has a ways to go. So you do have to be careful when it's freshly painted. Other than that for 65 bucks for the loader seals it's a very good investment.
I also noticed that when I hit the limit with the loader it doesn't make the high-pitched sound it made before the pitch is a bit lower. Also before the rebuild I could run the engine at very low rpm and hit the limit and the engine would continue to run but now at low rpm at the limit or even with 600 pounds in the bucket it will stall so I have to run the engine just a bit higher but still overall very low rpm.
I also was expecting to have to bleed the cylinders but after running it up and down a few times it became very smooth on its own.
I hope to get the backhoe done by this weekend and on the tractor but I also expected to have completed the rebuild after a week or 2
One last thing, I really have developed a high respect for the quality of these tractors and how common sense, logical and easy to fix they are.
I must say I do really like the way it looks now I have noticed however that the Kubota paint takes probably about 2 weeks in the hot sun before it really hardens up and I think it still has a ways to go. So you do have to be careful when it's freshly painted. Other than that for 65 bucks for the loader seals it's a very good investment.
I also noticed that when I hit the limit with the loader it doesn't make the high-pitched sound it made before the pitch is a bit lower. Also before the rebuild I could run the engine at very low rpm and hit the limit and the engine would continue to run but now at low rpm at the limit or even with 600 pounds in the bucket it will stall so I have to run the engine just a bit higher but still overall very low rpm.
I also was expecting to have to bleed the cylinders but after running it up and down a few times it became very smooth on its own.
I hope to get the backhoe done by this weekend and on the tractor but I also expected to have completed the rebuild after a week or 2
One last thing, I really have developed a high respect for the quality of these tractors and how common sense, logical and easy to fix they are.
... oh yeah, I almost forgot that my original question was "what speed to run PTO for BH" I am now convinced that once I finish the rebuild I will likely be running BH in the 1st speed. I can tell with the loader that the rebuild makes it "grab" better for lack of a better word I think that the reason 3rd was best before was because I had so much "bleed by" if that's the proper terminology (you get my point)
... But right now that's a hypothesis, soon I will know, still haven't decided if I should rebuild the valve for BH now, I definitely will in the winter, it looks really easy I'm just not sure how hard will be to get all the O-rings (I want to start using the darn thing). Kubota does not carry them in a rebuild kit which to me is ridiculous (Kubota are you listening)
... But right now that's a hypothesis, soon I will know, still haven't decided if I should rebuild the valve for BH now, I definitely will in the winter, it looks really easy I'm just not sure how hard will be to get all the O-rings (I want to start using the darn thing). Kubota does not carry them in a rebuild kit which to me is ridiculous (Kubota are you listening)
Lil Foot
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
