Smart guys, SOLAR

[xrocketengineer]

Remote power for small needs is where solar shines. You are on the right track. Just do DC for most of it, and run an inverter for the AC needs. Much simpler. Anything you run off the inverter won't be efficient, but in this scenario, you really don't really need to worry about efficiency. It's intermittent use, once in a while. It's a perfect place for a DC solar setup.

12v LEDs will provide al the light you need.

If you can find a 12v adapter for your laptop, that's good to go, otherwise charge from the inverter.

The walkie talkies might have a 12v supply available, depending on the price point and brand. Otherwise, again the inverter will do.

The very first thing to do is to determine how much power you need. Do yourself a favor - figure out yoru best generous estimate, then double it.


BTW, on inverters.... A decent one will run at its rated power. Just not for long. Figure your load, and go 2-3 times bigger if you want a long life out of it.

Additionally, if you decide to go along with something like this, make sure that the charge controller is MPPT. This type of charge controller can do several things to improve efficiency and charge the batteries even with marginal sunlight. First of all if the voltage of the solar panel exceeds the voltage of the battery, the controller can lower the voltage and increase the current to charge the battery more efficiently. On the other hand if the voltage of the solar panel is too low to charge the battery but there is plenty of current, the current can be reduced and the voltage increased to continue charging the battery. After the battery is charged, the charger stops charging automatically and can also automatically top off the battery if necessary. Additionally, most solar panels require a diode to prevent a reverse current at night that would discharge the battery. The MPPT controller has that feature too, avoiding the need of extra diodes.
The PWM controllers are cheaper but they leave a lot on the table. If the voltage of the solar panel exceeds the voltage of the battery, the excess is just cut off. If the voltage of the solar panel is lower than the battery, the charging stops.

Video

 

[AndyM]

You may have hit on why the couple of panels I bought to keep batteries charged are buried in the shed - bad controllers likely.

 

[John T]

Yep I would never live long enough to recoup the out lay of a home system thats for sure. So basically, enough to charge a couple batteries, for a couple LED lights, maybe a laptop, and charge the handy talkies and an inverter for a AC broadcast radio. I just dont want to haul a generator up and back and the new one is going to stay home! And the Coleman lamps work but get to be a PIA at my age. So no big draw for power, just a few little things

here ya go, Skeetles....

https://www.renogy.com/products/1200w-2500w-tiny-house-home-cabin-kit

I have a small Renogy solar panel on my back shed for a few years now.... no problems.

This kit would work for your cabin.... OR if you need less, you can piece meal it and cut it down to what you need....


On a side note.... I love it when folks say... "solar is a scam" you will never break even....

I have 22 - 460 watt panels on the back of my house... installed with a 30 year warranty was $30k
with the 30% federal refund, It came to about $22k (on grid system/No batteries)

It's been on over a year...... I have NO electric bill.

I went from over $400 a month in the summer to $0.00 a month.
I produce a surplus of KWH so the excess takes me through the winter (when the days are shorter)

To each his own...... but I am tickled to death.

PS, Trump ended the 30% tax break.... the end of this year... Dec. 31
One of the few things I disagree with him on.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

This is why I prefer a small Yamaha inverter generator to charge lithium storage cells...it's reliable.

Solar panels have a lifespan, so if they're in the sun they're getting cooked whether or not they're powering something and that lifespan is being used up. An unused generator isn't costing me anything and the initial investment is far less. Plus the peak current off a generator is far higher. It's not the best solution in all cases, and sometimes solar and a tiny generator is better, it depends on the use case. Maybe straight solar makes sense. I factor lifespan and replacement cost into the Total Cost Of Ownership so things look a bit different for me than for some others looking only at Initial Investment.

Note: Looks like YouTube links went bad? I have a post with a black image where the video link went bad also.

 

[JRHill]

These arguments will never be resolved. Some choose to fend for themselves and make an investment for a certain return. Others choose to rely on other resources and pay for services as they go. The only problem I have is when one side takes advantage of the other. I don't want to pay for someone else's services nor do I wish to be forced to use something I don't want or need.

As for me, I haven't had ANY utility bill for 15+ years unless I include cell, internet and sat TV. Nor do we have mail or parcel delivery or any road services until the main roads. I rather like it like that. These are choices I control including whether or not to join a cooperative effort/project.

 

[John T]

an investment for a certain return.

Thats another funny one....

I've talked to people who say they "did the math" and they won't break even or pay off a solar system... Yet they just shelled out $80k for a brand new pickup truck or SUV that depreciates as soon as you drive off the lot...

personally I enjoy seeing that "no payment due" invoice.

especially in communist Connecticut where they tack on a "public benefit fee" = (socialism enters the chat)

 

[L35]

It's been on over a year...... I have NO electric bill.

No electric bill because you already prepaid $22,000 to not have an electric bill. Do you have a payment plan to the solar company or did you pay it up in full? If there’s a payment plan that’s your new electric bill, the same every month regardless.
I have found solar really drops off in the winter, lower sun angles, a lot more partially cloudy days. A solar tracker is pretty key to keep up peak production but there’s another large chunk of change.

 

[JRHill]

There are many ways to utilize renewable energy and the priorities are as different as we are to each other. As an example, 20 years ago a group of seasonal cabins about half way between us and the closest power lines asked the PUD for an estimated hook up. The cost came to $125000 IF the PUD could get federal funding. The funding was turned down, probably because these are recreational, part time cabins. So the bill would be $250000 and that is only half way to us. We are full time. So you can imagine what the cost would be for us including that the complications and easements are greater in our direction. So we can theoretically spend to our heart's desire for anything electrical related and be far ahead for several lifetimes. But that is just us.

Besides, our self contained power generation project is one of the most fun hobbies I've ever had. There is AC and DC, mechanical and programing. There is efficiency in use. And there is the effort to make it as maintenance free as a grid connection in case something ever happened to me. And there's the major last issue: we never have a power outage, surge or brownout.

Lastly, if we had grid power available we would've hooked up without a thought. But I probably would've still added solar, batteries and a generator just because I like that kind of stuff.

 

[L35]

I looked at solar. Got price. Averaged my electric bills for the year and came up with something like $179. Solar payment would be just over that. At the end at least you own something where with just paying the poco you have nothing material. Although at end of payments it may be time to replace your panels but that would be cheaper than a new installation. I do have a new this year hybrid (solar/AC) mini split and it’s great in the summer, not so great (so far) in the winter when it comes to “free” power to run it.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

It's not just the panels, the regulation equipment in the middle ages out also, as do the batteries. Hopefully the panel mounting platform is universal and resilient, otherwise there are additional removal, repair, and disposal costs. Which is why low-complexity (simple) is better (in my opinion), though I'm on the grid as it's lower cost (in this case) and my time is also of value (there's never enough of it) so designing/maintaining/upgrading a system in this case has additional overhead. However, having a SHTF plan also has value, and for way off-grid locations it makes even more sense (though then I'd go diesel instead of gas), and that's not cheap initially either, and there's also maintenance.

 

[JRHill]

It's not just the panels, the regulation equipment in the middle ages out also, as do the batteries. Hopefully the panel mounting platform is universal and resilient, otherwise there are additional removal, repair, and disposal costs. Which is why low-complexity (simple) is better (in my opinion), though I'm on the grid as it's lower cost (in this case) and my time is also of value (there's never enough of it) so designing/maintaining/upgrading a system in this case has additional overhead. However, having a SHTF plan also has value, and for way off-grid locations it makes even more sense (though then I'd go diesel instead of gas), and that's not cheap initially either, and there's also maintenance.

Absolutely true for batteries. In 10 years I went through 2 banks of 8ea Trojan RE-16 series blocks. The first year and second year are wonderful. The 3rd I'd start seeing notable diminished capacity. The 4th was demanding more generator time and the fifth was sometimes needing two genset runs per day. And by that time at least one or more of the 8 batteries had failed or were causing the 'good' ones in the bank to have problems. And I was anal about maintenance (distilled water, terminals and specific gravity) which was no small amount of time. Never did I run them below 50% and at no small fuel expense ran the full Absorb time with the genset doing not much more than keeping the voltage up for three hours after the 2+ hours it took for the Bulk. That meant the lead batteries only had to work for 18-19 hours per day. I was fed up and bit the bullet for 3ea Simplify 3.8-48 LFP04 blocks. After installing them and two weeks later I was so impressed I bought a fourth. That will be 5 years ago this month.

So what have I had to do for battery maintenance in the last 5 years? Zilch. And they have saved me a BUNCH for fuel in the low sunlight season through the PNW winter. There has been zero change in performance since installation and with about the same Amp Hours of 'capacity' I have almost twice the useable power for use vs lead batteries without a generator run to recharge when the sun is low. To me the only downside in LFP04 batteries is their temperature limitation which is a real problem for those in a cold climate and the blocks have to be outside. Or if you are in the desert.

 

[John T]

No electric bill because you already prepaid $22,000 to not have an electric bill. Do you have a payment plan to the solar company or did you pay it up in full? If there’s a payment plan that’s your new electric bill, the same every month regardless.

Of Course I bought the system outright.

#1 Any lease deal from ANY solar company is a rip off.
#2 The only way you get the 30% off your federal is if you own the system..... otherwise the solar company gets it. another part of the rip off.

Like I said above, I didn't do it specifically from a spreadsheet / dollars and cents perspective...
But that said, My system will pay itself off in 6 years give or take... rates aren't getting lower, thats for sure.
Connecticut right now already has one of the highest $ electrical rates in the county. (not to mention the ridiculous Public benefit fee / Socialism TAX)

 

[L35]

Of Course I bought the system outright.

#1 Any lease deal from ANY solar company is a rip off.
#2 The only way you get the 30% off your federal is if you own the system..... otherwise the solar company gets it. another part of the rip off.

Like I said above, I didn't do it specifically from a spreadsheet / dollars and cents perspective...
But that said, My system will pay itself off in 6 years give or take... rates aren't getting lower, thats for sure.
Connecticut right now already has one of the highest $ electrical rates in the county. (not to mention the ridiculous Public benefit fee / Socialism TAX)

Yea pub benefits need to go. That was the key driver that pushed me over the edge to pop on my solar ac. The more you use the higher you pay for the poor/lazy. Less kWh on my end is a middle finger to the state/poco. It took a huge dent out of consumption. I finished install June 18th and tracking useage with the app so far it has used 505kwh. And our house is more comfortable because we would keep the grid tie ac at 74. Sometimes the house is upper 60s now.

 

[fatjay]

Lifepo4 cells are the way to go at this point for battery. They're dirt cheap and last a really long time.

My whole house is off grid solar, with a 11kw array, 18kw of inverter power, and 90kwh of battery. I took advantage of the 30% tax credit last year, and I'll do the same again this year. I built everything myself.

I just bought another 90kwh of battery because the tax credit ends this year. I don't support the tax credit, but I'll sure use it while it exists.

My utility cart is also electric. I charge it up and run for days, no mess with gas engine, oil changes, or anything else that can go wrong. It's a 1998 club carryall and runs like new after i converted it to lifepo4 battery.

I have a boiler for heat and hot water, but I just bought a heat pump hot water heater and heat pump heater (also 30% rebate) so my heat and hot water will be electric.

All these electric things are virtually maintenance free and last quite long. There is a learning curve, and there are a ton of companies trying to take advantage of people. However, if you can do it or know someone that can help, you can save thousands over the long run.

And if you're like me, power outages are frequent. At least 1-2 times a month, for hours or sometimes days on end.

And I still have a grid connection, but only use it if we have mulitple cloudy days to top off the batteries.

 

[JRHill]

Lifepo4 cells are the way to go at this point for battery. They're dirt cheap and last a really long time.

My whole house is off grid solar, with a 11kw array, 18kw of inverter power, and 90kwh of battery. I took advantage of the 30% tax credit last year, and I'll do the same again this year. I built everything myself.

I just bought another 90kwh of battery because the tax credit ends this year. I don't support the tax credit, but I'll sure use it while it exists.

My utility cart is also electric. I charge it up and run for days, no mess with gas engine, oil changes, or anything else that can go wrong. It's a 1998 club carryall and runs like new after i converted it to lifepo4 battery.

I have a boiler for heat and hot water, but I just bought a heat pump hot water heater and heat pump heater (also 30% rebate) so my heat and hot water will be electric.

All these electric things are virtually maintenance free and last quite long. There is a learning curve, and there are a ton of companies trying to take advantage of people. However, if you can do it or know someone that can help, you can save thousands over the long run.

And if you're like me, power outages are frequent. At least 1-2 times a month, for hours or sometimes days on end.

And I still have a grid connection, but only use it if we have mulitple cloudy days to top off the batteries.

Congrats! That's a pretty substantial system. I've got a little baby in comparison w 3kw of panels, 15kw of batteries that can give me 30aac at 120vac continuous which is more that sufficient. And our sun disappears for 2.5 -3 months of the year. But that's what we have for exposure so we make the best of it.

 

[Pittawasx]

I ran into similar sizing issues when I expanded my off-grid setup. What helped me figure out the real-world performance of panels and batteries was checking out detailed spec comparisons and nerding out on test data from places like https://www.raylyst.eu. They’ve got loads of info on solar stuff, especially how different brands perform over time, which helped me avoid some expensive mistakes.

 

[JRHill]

Yea pub benefits need to go. That was the key driver that pushed me over the edge to pop on my solar ac. The more you use the higher you pay for the poor/lazy....

And from today's news feed:

Democratic Wisconsin lawmakers propose legislation capping utility bills

Democratic state lawmakers are proposing a bill that would essentially cap residential energy bills in Wisconsin at 2 percent of household income.

www.wpr.org

So you are good about paying your power bill? Good for you! But you are also paying other people's power bill too. But this kind of stuff is just PART of the increasing costs that hits every one of us 'rich' people. I am not against generosity in charity, donations, etc. I am against others' use of my assets for their charity and donations.

It wasn't on my mind when we went off grid but is sure has become that in these times.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

And from today's news feed:

Democratic Wisconsin lawmakers propose legislation capping utility bills

Democratic state lawmakers are proposing a bill that would essentially cap residential energy bills in Wisconsin at 2 percent of household income.

www.wpr.org

So you are good about paying your power bill? Good for you! But you are also paying other people's power bill too. But this kind of stuff is just PART of the increasing costs that hits every one of us 'rich' people. I am not against generosity in charity, donations, etc. I am against others' use of my assets for their charity and donations.

It wasn't on my mind when we went off grid but is sure has become that in these times.

I don't see government offering to lower taxes so people aren't "on the knife's edge."

 

[Sidekick]

I took a couple pics in my solar backup power shed.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

I took a couple pics in my solar backup power shed.
View attachment 165808 View attachment 165809

It's that ~$9,000 in controllers and such?