Grapple University

[trikepilot]

Ok… before this devolves into a typical thread akin to motor oil preferences and other arcane hijacking, let’s just say that this is a request for generic info on grapples as a whole. Let's also qualify that this is for compact tractors of around 30hp and below (Small Ls, Bs, and BXs) as I feel that there are many of us out there and we are somewhat constrained by HP and lift capacity to smaller and lighter grapples.

I am sure there are many, like me, who are casually following their local used market for a decent grapple. As such, we are not searching for a specific brand or model, but rather, are simply trying to decipher the pros/cons of the various grapple designs that present themselves closeby.

I am looking for feedback from those with grapples on why they think one should choose one design over another or why they got a particular grapple design and wish they had gotten something different.

For example, why should you choose a grapple with two hydraulic cylinders on top versus one cylinder?

Why should I choose a grapple with long bottom teeth versus one with short or no bottom teeth?

Why should I choose a grapple with top mounted cylinders versus rear mounted cylinders?

What else is important to consider when looking for a grapple like I am for a B2620 that will not be put into heavy duty service.

 

[mdhughes]

I think the most important thing is the weight of the grapple. You don't want to use up all your lifting power just on the weight of the grapple.

As far as what type of grapple to get, it depends on what you are planing on doing with it. In my case I use mine mostly to move logs around, so a single lid 55" root grapple is what I went with. It does the job very well and it works to do other tasks.

That's my 2¢ of it.

 

[NCL4701]

I’m aware my L is a big over 30hp so please ignore if you wish. Below is opinion based on my experience. YMMV.

Long bottom better for carrying stuff, particularly brush. But vertical will carry stuff.

Twin lid better for odd shaped loads, some brush loads, construction type debris, odd shaped logs, multiple large rocks, etc. But single lid works.

Vertical type better for root raking because loader curl cylinders aren’t extended nearly as far as with long bottom raking. But you can do some root raking with long bottom.

All that said, any design will root rake and carry stuff competently, just some will do specific tasks better than others.

Weight is a big deal. Arguably the most important attribute on a small tractor/loader. Better quality steel, less is needed as a general rule. Still, check the actual weight on whatever grapples you’re considering. Particularly on a CUT or SCUT, weight is too important to guess.

Which is “best” depends on what your primary uses are. If you rarely have a use for it and don’t root rake, add a grapple type lid addition to forks might even work.

Last, I have yet to hear anyone online or in person say they have a grapple and regret buying it or wish they’d bought a different style.

 

[skeets]

Just MHO, I have the short bottom, it works well enough, however I think the long bottom might be a lot better for picking up brush piles, logs and branches, anything you need to get under, kinda wish I would have gone with the long lower jaw. Now what I do know,,,, is if you aint got at least one bent tooth you aint using it

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Hope this doesn't get too long. I started hauling the weed saplings I cut with the bucket (actually mostly on the arms above the bucket), then moved to forks which was a major improvement. During this time I was educating myself on grapples, almost to the point of analysis paralysis. I ended up narrowing it down to two Land Pride models, the SGC0660 or SGC1060, both are claw (short bottom) type. I ended up with the 1060 for my L35. It was more than I wanted to spend, but I'm happy with it.

* Claw vs root - there are times when a long bottom would haul more, but overall I like the claw style. I'm clearing a house lot and use the lid for raking up small stuff. Also the short bottom tines can be used for leveling high spots and loosening the soil. LP touts using the back of the tines for back-dragging, but I haven't found this very useful because the loader arm lower pins are in the dirt.

* The 1060 @400# is probably too heavy for your B, but the 0660 would work. The 1060 is thicker material and has more tines, leading to . . .

* Tine spacing; if you want to pick up smaller brush or rock, get more tines/closer spacing. If you want to exclude rocks, get fewer tines.

* Single vs double lid: both had single lid and I'm satisfied, but I sometimes encounter the advantage of double.

* Top vs rear cylinders: I think the advantage touted for rear cylinders is that they're better protected. I can't really compare, mine has rear and I notice guards on many top mounts.

* Protection: the hoses on the 1060 are protected much better than the 0660. The cylinders are behind the basket, so that seems to be all the protection they need.

* Bearings: the 1060 has greasable pins, but not fully. I intend to drill and install zercs on the others. Many of the lower end units have narrow tabs turning on bolts. These are destined to be high wear areas. If you're handy, this can be improved upon.

* Material of construction: the high strength AR plate has become popular, and the LP's have it. Note this doesn't mean everything is AR; the tubes etc are mild steel, I think. I'm not really sure if the AR is more for wear resistance or brute strength. I wouldn't pass up a good deal on a mild steel unit.

All of this assumes you've ruled out bucket grapples, scrap grapples, rock buckets, fork add-ons, etc. If you give more information, you'd get better input. Of course, like me you'll probably find uses later that you haven't thought of. Regardless of what you end up with, it'll be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[GrumpyFarmer]

I think you got some solid advice from others above.

I definitely agree that especially for smaller machine grapple can take a big bite out of the lift capacity…tread lightly, bigger not always better in this case.

i wanted to throw a couple items shared in another post recently…

Catawba 55 rake vs 48 single lid or 56 dual lid root grapples

Anyone have either of these grapples? Thoughts, pros & cons of each? Other grapple options? Going to be putting it on my L2501/LA525. Thanks for any help!

www.orangetractortalks.com

 

[trikepilot]

Thanks to all so far. I am, indeed, concerned about weight of the grapple eating up too much of my lifting capacity.

I hear you on the "analysis paralysis" but I just want to make sure that I know the basics so if the right grapple at a decent cost within my budget pops up closeby - I can know it is the right one and pounce on it. I want nothing more than a grapple to remove brush and debris so no bucket grapples, scrap grapples, rock buckets, fork add-ons, etc... I will be adding pallet forks at some point too but they are way more straight forward without all the variations of a grapple.

Is there a percentage of the lift capacity that one should not exceed with the grapple itself? And which of the lift capacity figures above should you go off? I highly doubt I will be using the grapple much higher than hood height at worst as most of my work will be on the ground or very close to it.

Keep the good suggestions coming as I wallow around deep in the grapple rabbit hole. I hope this info can inform others with smaller tractors pondering the same purchase.

 

[old and tired]

A couple of reasons why I got the bolt on grapple from W.R. Long... One, I have a pin on bucket so swapping between the 2 was not an option. Two, mine weighs 143 pounds so pretty light.

It works for heavy rocks, tree trunks and I can pick up piles of brush to the point, I can not see where I'm driving because the pile is too big...

 

[GrumpyFarmer]

Regarding capacity, IMO it really depends on how high you plan to lift the material (and how heavy the material). Assuming flat / level ground, the light material no issue to lift / drop into a trailer or truck bed with sides.

If ground not flat and you are not careful with the approach or where you maneuver or park a trailer or something , you could quickly find out how great a lever the loader makes in conjunction with the center pivot axle…this could be more likely of lifting large logs or something and maybe it’s not centered well in the grapple or magnified by uneven ground that shifts your center of weight.

I think in general light material not so much issue with capacity, if heavy stuff and want to lift high I would be thinking about 1/2 the capacity as the loader can lift (as a start point) if need to lift high and you are not familiar with the machine yet. This is a belly rub…before you start lifting high or heavy material I think need to make sure you are properly ballasted…if not there will be a steep and very quick learning curve. (Flat/level ground and ballast is very important IMO).

slow as possible and as fast as necessary until you get comfortable with the machine and implement. Think smooth…jamming on brakes if loader full and in the air doesn’t help. JMHO.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Thanks to all so far. I am, indeed, concerned about weight of the grapple eating up too much of my lifting capacity.

View attachment 162795

I hear you on the "analysis paralysis" but I just want to make sure that I know the basics so if the right grapple at a decent cost within my budget pops up closeby - I can know it is the right one and pounce on it. I want nothing more than a grapple to remove brush and debris so no bucket grapples, scrap grapples, rock buckets, fork add-ons, etc... I will be adding pallet forks at some point too but they are way more straight forward without all the variations of a grapple.

Is there a percentage of the lift capacity that one should not exceed with the grapple itself? And which of the lift capacity figures above should you go off? I highly doubt I will be using the grapple much higher than hood height at worst as most of my work will be on the ground or very close to it.

Keep the good suggestions coming as I wallow around deep in the grapple rabbit hole. I hope this info can inform others with smaller tractors pondering the same purchase.

The L35 loader capacity is ~1600#, I assume at the pins. The SGC1060 weighs 400#, so 1/4 of rated capacity. 1/4 of 952 is 238, the SGC0660, recommended by LP for the B, LX or L, weighs 250#. So my recommendation would be to stay below around 250.

BTW, this brings up another point. The weight of a claw grapple is nearer the pins that a long bottom one, so this is in your favor. Also, the load you pick up will usually be nearer the pins.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

For example, why should you choose a grapple with two hydraulic cylinders on top versus one cylinder?

Two cylinders operate independently, and allow you to grab uneven objects while putting pressure on two places on the object. This makes things far more stable.


When you have only one cylinder, and you pick up an irregular object, the jaws will close until they make contact at the widest point. The rest of the object is just hanging around unsecured. This can work okay in many situations, but it's far from ideal.

With two cylinders, when you pick up that irregular object, the widest part gets grabbed, but then the second cylinder continues closing and finds the NEXT widest part, and clamps on to that. Since both cylinders are being fed pressure from a single source, they will both be applying the same pressure to your object, BUT, it's being grabbed at two locations, not just one.

This is FAR more stable.

I would not even consider purchasing a grapple with only one cylinder unless I had ONE very limited use in mind where the objects I'm lifting are all very uniform. Something like moving pipes or culvert or something like that, yes.

But for general use where the objects are unpredictable, and vary in size? Nope. I want two cylinders.

I've moved quite a bit of firewood logs and brush piles, and having that dual clamping made things easy that would have been difficult otherwise.


HTH!

 

[trikepilot]

Thanks for the education on the two top cylinders. I now know they operate independently. Sounds like a good setup but i am guessing that they must be heavier by default.

Backhoe will give plenty of ballast out back - around 800lbs

 

[lynnmor]

Make sure that the grapple you are interested in will stand up for attaching and detaching from the tractor. That includes enough downward travel to clear the grapple before the loader arms hit the ground. In addition to the above, make sure that the lower tines will not be angled into the ground in order to keep the loader from plowing dirt when you are picking up things. Also, that forward angle reduces the effective opening so less brush can be gathered. I am disgusted with my Virnig since they could have installed the attaching points two inches higher. If I ever get a roundtuit I'll cut and weld. You would think that a manufacturer or dealer would test their product on a few of the most popular tractors before marketing them.

 

[Elliott in GA]

Your choice should also be influenced by the type of work you will do most. I primarily use my claw style grapple to move brush (mostly piles of cut and uprooted privet), and the claw shape is particularly well suited for that task. It opens the widest, and then you roll over/come down from above to compact brush against the ground. Once the grapple is closed/partially closed you have a much bigger load (it is all held by pressure against itself) than trying to push against a pile. It also is very safe as you do not have brush being pushed into your tractor's grill. The claw works well with logs and telephone poles, too.

I also use the claw to literally claw down vegetation that is too thick to back over with my rotary cutter - think of a wall of multiflora rose 8 feet high, 75 yards long and 20 yards thick. I would drag out massive blobs to be rotary cut.

FWIW, I usually uproot bushes with my tooth bar equipped bucket - not my grapple.

 

[retiree-urgency abandoned]

I bought an Everything Attachment Wicked 55" rake grapple - received it a few months before they went through their legal troubles, so I was lucky on the timing. My B3350 is close to what you have and I've been very pleased with this purchase. Per previous replies, weight of the attachment is a big deal for our smaller machines - that's why I went with this vs. a heavier grapple. It's light enough that I can push it around the concrete barn floor if I need to or am too lazy to fire up the tractor to move it.

It works great with brush, logs, raking, etc. We had a very wet spring/early summer and a lot of trees down due to the root ball coming out of the ground. A LOT of mess to clean up. I'd limb them with the chainsaw, cut the trunk logs to length and then everything after that was sitting on the tractor and using the grapple to clean up (except for a little manicuring with a garden rake). With the grapple, you can either push or pull (rake) the limbs into piles to grab and move.

I've also used it to grab & move landscape rocks. For dry-stacked stone retaining walls, I usually use the bucket - easier to slide rocks into place and/or sort them in the bucket.

The photo was my first time using it - wanted to see what it could do, so had a big sycamore trunk. FEL couldn't lift the whole log, but it could handle 1/2.

The grapple will grab and hold more than my FEL can lift - after some pucker moments, I use common sense, take my time and keep logs near the ground when moving them. Cut some oak that came down into nice 12.5' logs for a buddy with a Woodmizer - loaded them carefully - one-at-a-time onto his running gear wagons.

It's also great for dealing with trees that fall across our road. I can get it cleared pretty quickly - a few cuts and push it to the side for when the county gets round to it. Had to deal with about 6 across the road in the space of a week. As luck would have it, I had the grapple mounted, tractor fueled up and carry all with chainsaws & tools mounted on the 3PH.

Normally, I've got the bucket with toothbar on my machine since swapping for the grapple takes less than 5 minutes.

Despite my best efforts, I haven't yet bent a tooth.

 

[retiree-urgency abandoned]

First time out photo - 1/2 of the sycamore log

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I have a single lid HLA light duty grapple.

It works just fine for basically everything I have asked it to do EXCEPT for moving “bucked logs”.

When you go to grab a bunch of them, 1 ALWAYS gets jammed in "cock-eyed” , and the rest of the bucked logs just fall out as you bounce to your destination, leaving a “trail” that a blind man could follow…..

It appears to me that a “dual lid” may help alleviate that? But I have no 1st hand knowledge of that.

The one thing that my single lid does very well is “back-dragging” larg’ish debris, and “smoothing out” areas that have been dug up by the BH.

I love that.

It has saved me countless hours of cleaning up.

My grandson just bent the crap out of one of the tines, moving a big rock, but I suppose “anything can be broke” if you try hard enough.

 

[trikepilot]

All good input. I will almost assuredly be on the lighter side of grapple use on my property. I will not be moving large/long bucked logs or moving boulders. I see it as a easier way to move brush/debris/slash than pushing with the bucket.

In an effort to keep weight down and thus preserve lift capacity, I am debating between a 4ft or 5ft grapple. My FEL bucket is 5feet approx and covers the wheel width just barely. A 4ft grapple would be narrower than the wheel width and might be problematic carrying longer items if I don't get the load absolutely centered. But it seems from comments here that the double top cylinders can help a bit with asymmetric or slightly unbalanced loads. I am currently looking into the weight difference between a few different 4 and 5ft grapples online to see what the average might be and then determine if that weight savings is worth the loss of a foot of width. It appears that many manufacturers are listing an increase of 50-75lbs going from similarly designed one cylinder to two cylinder grapples.

So between my online research and the feedback here, I have narrowed my search in to the lightest double top cylinder grapple that is 5ft or narrower that I see pop up on my local CL or FBMP within an hour's drive. I am in no hurry as I don't have any acute "needs" so I can be patient. I just spent almost 6 mos watching the used online markets for a car/tractor trailer before snapping up a mint condition 7x16.

 

[McMXi]

Make sure that the grapple you are interested in will stand up for attaching and detaching from the tractor.

I would add that it's not hard to fabricate a stand for a grapple that doesn't come with this feature, so if a grapple checks all the boxes with the exception of this one, @trikepilot might want to buy it regardless. I think you could make a good argument that implement manufactures should design in a feature that helps the end user to install and remove the grapple. This is more easily accomplished with some models than others due to the geometry of the lower jaw and tines, but it only took an hour or so to design, weld and paint the stand shown below for the EA Wicked 60.

Another member here copied the concept but bolted the receiver to the grapple, so welding ability or equipment isn't a requirement. Other than an hour of my time, some welding wire/gas and a few watts, I have very little into this since I used scrap steel and offcuts that I had laying around.

 

[Sawdust&Shavings]

I would add that it's not hard to fabricate a stand for a grapple that doesn't come with this feature, so if a grapple checks all the boxes with the exception of this one, @trikepilot might want to buy it regardless. I think you could make a good argument that implement manufactures should design in a feature that helps the end user to install and remove the grapple. This is more easily accomplished with some models than others due to the geometry of the lower jaw and tines, but it only took an hour or so to design, weld and paint the stand shown below for the EA Wicked 60.

Another member here copied the concept but bolted the receiver to the grapple, so welding ability or equipment isn't a requirement. Other than an hour of my time, some welding wire/gas and a few watts, I have very little into this since I used scrap steel and offcuts that I had laying around.

View attachment 162828

View attachment 162829

Simple and elegant…sweeeeeet; nicely done.