what diesel additives do you use?

[pat331]

I, like everyone else, has been watching this thread. I think the bottom line is that NO-ONE trusts the EPA and feels like I do in that we got screwed when sulfur was essentially removed from diesel fuel. We have to pay for the increased cost of the fuel (removing the sulfur) and we believe the low sulfur content fuel will shorten the life of the fuel injection components in our equipment. I guarantee that every one of us would piss in our fuel tanks if we thought it would make a difference. I did go read the report that brokersdad listed in post #16. I found it to be very informative but wondered how accurate it is. Thanks brokersdad for the information. Also, I was told by a former EPA employee that the new low sulfur fuel was supposed to have lubricity additives put back in it to make up for removed sulfur. The mentioned report indicates this is not the case - that the new fuel does not lubricate the fuel injection equipment as good as the old fuel. This is my $0.02 worth and if anyone knows of a good/accurate blind study that we can believe, I'd love to know about it.

 

[Sam427]

It sounds like Sam 427 has done research that is valuable to all of us. The new fuel has been designed for the new engines and is what all the owners of older diesels will just have to settle for.
In our area we recieved our first load of the new fuel in March of 08. Until that point the off road had 2000 ppm sulfer and the on road had 500 ppm sulfer.
Now the new rating was 500 ppm off road and 15 ppm ultra low on road. In the first of 09 our fuel rep informed us that everything had the 15 ppm rating and the only difference between on and off road was the red dye and it didn't have the road use tax. He claimed the reason for this was to insure that there was no way for a load of off road rated fuel could accidentally get delivered to a station or truck stop where ultra low fuel was suppose to go. As a benefit for them they now only had to keep one grade of diesel fuel in their storage tanks. If off road was ordered by a customer they would add the dye and send it out.
We didn't start getting equipment designed for the new (500 ppm) fuel until 07. So everything we had made prior to that was designed for the 2000 ppm fuel. What that tell me is that all that equipment even though it was designed for 2000 ppm fuel is having to run on 15 ppm fuel now in 2010.

With that being said, would you put 10w hyd oil in a gear box that required 85w140 gear oil? Sure, the hyd oil is a lubricant but it was not designed to take the place of gear lube. It would not be able to provide the proper lubrication.

How can the new ultra low sulfer fuel provide the proper level of lubrication required in a engine designed to operate on 2000 ppm fuel?

The point is, be careful what you put in your new equipment and trucks, you can damage the converter. Farm equipment are coming with converters on them now too, so they can be damaged as well. You just can't go dumping whatever you want in these modern cars, trucks, and equipment, you will do damage. They took the zinc out of the motor oil too, it damages the O2 sensors. O2 sensors at a hundred dollars a pop aren't worth dumping zinc additives in you motor oil. The new oils do just fine and there is no need for it, same with the diesel fuel.

 

[fjz]

I heard there's an additive for algae of some sort as it grows in diesel.

 

[kubota alpine]

where I am up in canada we get winter diesel that already has a anti jelling agent in it so I don't run anything in my fuel normally, however when I get a engine that has been sitting for a long time I mix in ATF with my fuel and I find it cleans out the fuel system very well. I even use it in my gas engines when the carb's get gummed up.

Also if I am going to rebuild a engine if possible I drain the oil and fill it with ATF and run the engine at temp for about 5 min then drain the ATF while hot and the engine will be shining clean inside when you pull it apart which makes rebuilding just that much easier.

thats what I do and it works for me everyone has there way of doing things so to each there own!

 

[mlatour3300]

where I am up in canada we get winter diesel that already has a anti jelling agent in it so I don't run anything in my fuel normally, however when I get a engine that has been sitting for a long time I mix in ATF with my fuel and I find it cleans out the fuel system very well. I even use it in my gas engines when the carb's get gummed up.

Also if I am going to rebuild a engine if possible I drain the oil and fill it with ATF and run the engine at temp for about 5 min then drain the ATF while hot and the engine will be shining clean inside when you pull it apart which makes rebuilding just that much easier.

thats what I do and it works for me everyone has there way of doing things so to each there own!

I like the idea and thought of doing it myself, how much ATF are you adding per gallon,

 

[pALErIDER]

I am in Canada as well and I use Howes conditioner and have used it for years in all diesel equipment I have operated from trucks to generators.

Fuel conditioners are designed to stabilize fuel from separation, increase lubrication and remove water (typically results from condensation created by temperature differences between the fuel inside the tank and the outside environment) by emulsification using an alcohol or methanol (gas line antifreeze) which is part of the mix and makes the water flammable allowing it to pass through the combustion chamber without interfering with the firing cycle.
Pick one and use it... don't mix them!
Some additives don't react well with each other and can actually cause gelling in the fuel!

ATF is NOT designed to burn in a combustion chamber and WILL leave behind unwanted residuals, not to mention the added toxins to the exhaust!
I would not add it to my fuel!!!!

JMO

 

[RDR]

One of the few things I agree with after reading every post in this thread is additives and converters. I would listen to Bulldog on his experience with his equipment. Bulldog, you might want to explain more about how old and what you are using. I'll emphasize TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND HOURS is a little more than the usual weekend warrior can understand. I don't condemn someone for knowing what works or even thinks works. Others should do the same. I think those that are quick to condemn read alot, hear alot, but don't have much experience.

As far as transmission fluid not being a lubricant, how is it a mechanic my father knew could run atf in his car in the winter time and not have it burn up? What lubricates the pump, bearings and bushings in an automatic transmission. I guess hydraulic oil isn't a lubricant or your wet brakes in your tractor wouldn't grab and work. IF IT ISN'T A LUBRICANT what keeps your transmission and hydraulic pump from burning up? A little tip on this, some things that use friction are designed to work in oil.

I turned 60 a couple of months ago. I have seen a lot over the years. I remember when I was young and thought I knew a lot. The older I get the more there is to learn. Technology is sometimes great and sometimes I think some changes are just an engineer trying to look like they are doing something because what they changed made things worse. Those that have been around awhile know what I am talking about.

Now that I have taken so long to write this I'll have to copy and paste to post it after I sign in again. Does anyone know why this happens?

 

[ipz2222]

"I think some changes are just an engineer trying to look like they are doing something because what they changed made things worse. Those that have been around awhile know what I am talking about. "
A BIG 10 -4 there. I'm an automatic transmission technician and one of the biggist problems we have to deal with is changes inside the the trans for no apparent reason. The consumer has NO idea of the amount of money, "millions", they have had to spend in repairs because an engineer decided " this idea will make it better", when in fact, in made it worse and thousands of transmissions failed.
Case in point. Ford deleted a small support plate in the valve body of there
4r75w trans in light duty trucks around '05. Saved them maybe 25 cents per trans. It caused the plate to crack and leak, causeing slipping and burning up of the trans. Guess who gets to pay for the repair after warranty???

 

[Jim-Iowa]

Whats the reason for putting additive's in highway diesel? I thought only around the winter time you had to put in a treatment to keep the diesel from jelling in cold weather, I had head that there's no real difference in highway and non-highway other then the dye they put in off road diesel so we know which is which and that you don't pay a tax on off road diesel. I've been a truck driver for a number of years and heard a few horror stories about D.O.T pulling over big rigs at random and dipping the fuel tanks to see if someone was putting off road diesel in a highway rig, thats a real nasty fine if you get caught, up wards of two thousand dollars or more.

Eric: being way down south, you would rarely need a fuel additive except to clean dirty injectors. While I don;t have a Kubota yet, I put 200,000 miles on a VW Rabbit Diesel. Two things I did to keep it running flawlessly,
! buy all my fuel in a truck stop that got tankers in daily, and use Power Service in the winter. If they are moving a high volume, the fuel is not sitting in tanks drawing water In cold weather, the fuel is blended for temp based on current tepmerature when the truck is loaded off the pipeline9this i know from working in a truck stop for 5 yrs). If it is 40 degrees when the truck is loaded and 20 below( not unusual in Iowa) when you buy the fuel, you are in danger of fuel gelling. the additive helps prevent gelling and cleans the fuel system, degelling a diesel is never fun especially in a snow bank when it's below zero and the wind is blowing 30 mph. so I would always use it in winter.. I only added additive every 3rd tank in the summer.

Yes your right about the Ag Fuel, there is no road tax on ag fuel, so using Ag Fuel on the road is Tax evasion. Not a good practice

 

[Wxman]

I run a premium diesel and forget about any additives of any kind and don't worry about cetane, lubricity or gelling. Maybe I am lucky because this is readily available around here.

Not all fuels are the same.

http://www.countrymark.com/sdx4.cfm

http://www.countrymark.com/pdr.cfm

http://www.countrymark.com/userfiles/File/DistillateSpecs_082511(2).pdf

There are others if you can find them. I know Sunoco makes a premium diesel. Conoco around here is blended pretty well, but still doesn't make a 50 cetane, which is what is recommended in my tractor.

Just fuel for the fire, err...., discussion.

Wxman

 

[The Toolman]

A tablespoon or two of marvel mystery oil every tank full never hurt anyone or thing. I even put a little in my Goldwing every other tank or so. Helps keep the guides lubed an the rings free from carboning up.

Can't be to bad, I'm 61 an it was around a long time before me.


http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/products/

 

[Felix1]

Even Mother Kubota recommends diesel additives for storage.

http://www.kubotaengine.com/support/faq.html

Q: I'm storing my Kubota-powered product for the winter. Is there anything I should do to prepare it for storage?

A: For gas engines, drain all the fuel including the carburetor, or add a gasoline stabilizer additive and run the engine for about 15 minutes to be sure it is mixed throughout the fuel system. On diesels, you'll want to add a fuel stabilizer additive and run it for at least 15 minutes to distribute it throughout the system. Make sure the engine coolant is mixed 50/50 with water, protecting your engine to -34 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[moderatmixed]

Just my 2 cents, but I run Jet A1 exclusively in my B6100. I fly a jet, and we sump the tanks regularly for sediment. Given that there is never any water or sediment, rather than throwing it away, I put it into a gerry can and whenever there is enough I bring it home. As I understand it, I run the risk of burning out the fuel pump as the highly refined jet fuel doesn't lubricate, so I add 2 oz of 30 weight oil to 5 gallons. Works just fine and runs beautifully. So yes you can certainly run Jet Fuel.

Cheers

 

[3cylinder]

i have been a diesel mechanic for 34 years in iowa the best thing you can add to your fuel is power service it gets rid of any moisture lubes the injectors and upper cylinders also i put in restore add it to the oil it fills in the sctatches that is normal wear in your cylinders when you get these scratches you lose compression and lose power from your motor and yes i have rebuilt alot of truck motors that ran neather and these motors wore out quicker as much as 200,000 miles sooner i put power service in everytime i fuel and restore every 2nd oil change and yes here we get blended fuel 50-50 #1 and #2 diesel that we run in the trucks at work with out it well lets just say i have spent 15 hours in one day dejelling trucks some guys use red alart but i think it has to much alcohol in it

 

[jcork]

I have several diesels and they all like different things.

I have a 1990 F250 with the old 7.3l IDI. In Winter I use Power Service in the white bottle. In warm weather I use some 2-stroke oil from Wal Mart (very cheap) at about an ounce per gallon. This is a very simple, old, engine design, and very tolerant of a wide range in fuels.

In the 2000 VW tdi I use a Power Service product year round. I found a little 2-stroke oil was ok, but it's a pain to add a tiny amount of each on a fill up. It's a fairly high performance engine and I am careful not to have too much in the way of deviation from straight fuel.

I have been running Power Service in the 2004 Kubota. I tried some 2-stroke oil but it didn't seem to run as well. I haven't burned enough fuel yet to make a solid decision on it yet.

I think additional lubricity is a good thing, but probably not so important for recent engines, designed to use modern fuel. 2-stroke oil is designed to be burned and leave little in the way of deposits and I think it's pretty harmless in moderation; my truck runs quieter with it in the tank, but I found it wasn't designed for a low pour point, and I expect the truck to start in Winter. It made the VW run cooler and quieter, but at the expense of some power and I have no idea what it would do to a turbo in long term use.

 

[birddogger]

2-stroke oil is designed to be burned and leave little in the way of deposits and I think it's pretty harmless in moderation

Well they try, but all 2 stroke oil will say "Low ash" or "very low ash" but none that I've found say "No ash."
One of the regular maintenance items I need to do is remove mufflers and clean the ash and carbon build-up from exhaust ports on all the string-trimmers and chain saws to keep them running at power.

 

[Stubbyie]

Most all pumps and injectors trace their historic background to Bosch.

Bosch recommends Stanadyne without reservation.
Not cheap but well worth it.
Not at Tractor Supply and may have to search a little but worth the effort.

Ask around at any clean-room level rebuild facility and they'll tell you Stanadyne is the best.

I stated clean-room because they tend to be more technically cognizant. I find myself greatly distressed--and distrustful of his advice--seeing a guy chomping a cigar working on a pump on a junky cluttered greasy workbench under a bare lightbulb. If I can't eat off the bench my pump shouldn't be there either.

 

[texasgeezer]

This link goes to a Lubricity test of several additives. Surprised no one entered it before.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728

Interesting that Lucas upper cylinder lubricant #14 on list & #'s 15,16,17,18,19 actually decreased the lubrication quality of the diesel fuel.

Because of this test & a comment from Bosch about new diesel fuel harming injection pumps I started using bio-diesel. I stopped using bio-diesel because of the fuel degradation due to water & algae. This created a 1/2" layer of silicon looking gel that was sucked into my first fuel filter & blocked it. Had to remove the fuel tank & have it cleaned. Very difficult for the shop to clean it. Nothing seemed to 'cut it', cleaning was accomplished primarily by wiping it out with rags.

Biodiesel probably is a good additive but I wouldn't recommend it if your fuel will be sitting around for very long.

After bio-diesel I've started using outboard two cycle motor oil, (high on the test list), I find enough at garage & estate sales at low prices for my needs.
I'm not worried about using it because it must burn OK with outboard engines.

"Opti-lube" summer blend provided good lubricity at a reasonable cost.

Power Service was #10 on the list, it did provide lubricity, just not much of it.

In my searches I've found heavy equipment operators that burn up to a 25% mixture of highly filtered used motor oil with no apparent harm to engine (warmer climates). One commented that he typically got over 20,000 hours on an engine. The study says that motor oil in a 200:1 ratio gave a slight improvement in lubricity.

 

[oldbear]

I'm a "Power Service" fan, have been since '01 when my NEW F350, driven from GA to Illlinois for a funeral, "gelled up" the Saturday before Christmas...everything was shut down, wound up with a tow truck from a truck stop pulling me in. He sat it in a heated garage for about two hours, added PS to the tank, and ran it for an hour. Told me "use it (3 oz to 10 gallons) and you will NEVER gel up. Been doing it ever since in trucks, tractors and VW diesel cars and knock on wood have never had another problem, despite a few cold winters in Iowa and parking outside in sub zero temps. My current '12 Jetta TDI also gives me about 1.8 better mpg when running PS, which helps compensate for the cost. Gray bottle in cold weather, white the rest of the time.

 

[PWM3rd]

I had to spend over $600 last year, October for a complete fuel system cleaning of L 3800 with only 70 hours on it. Algae was determined to be the cause of tractor sputtering and shutting off during operation. (First season of owning)

With this said, can someone please advise on what they believe is the best additive to use. I keep a 5 gallon diesel container full for use after every time I've used by Kubota. I've placed a picture below on the different additives I've purchased and wanted the opinion of the OTT members. Dealer said that the climate here in Illinois last year...for some reason, caused the Algae to be extra tough on diesel fuel. Thanks.