Trans fluid drain bolt problem

[NEPA Guy]

I was doing the first 50 hour service on the tractor. Swapped the oil and filter, no problem.

Next up is to change the transmission oil filter [HST] and the hydraulic oil filter.

Although the manual says not to swap the fluid till 400 hours, it seems cleaner to drain the fluid and then change the filters. I had done this before on a B3350 and noticed some shavings when I drained it, so I get the satisfaction of knowing I've got the cleanest fluid possible.

I removed bolt #1 and drained the transmission fluid from that spot. When I put the bolt back in I hand screwed it in and then used my wrench to tighten it and then it just went loose, kept spinning, and not tightening anymore.

I loosened it and took it off and when I did a part of the thread fell off the top of the bolt. (see pictures)

When I looked closely, I also noticed that there was this grey matter wedged in the thread of the bolt.

It's hard to see but I tried to get a clear shot of the drain hole. I'm not quite sure what to do. I tried to thread it back in by hand but now I'm meeting resistance. I don't want to force it back in and make it worse, and not sure if just a new bolt will fix my problem or if the drain hole thread is defective or needs to be cleaned? Please don't tell me it has to be re-threaded.

Also, should I be replacing the washers on the bolts, It appears there's a rubber ring on the inside of the washer . I replaced the copper washers on the oil bolts.

I didn't remove and drain bolts #2, or swap the filters yet, it's getting late.

I've swapped fluids hundreds of times. This has never happened to me before.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Russell King]

It looks like you stripped the threads in the hole. First picture shows a piece of the threads (small piece). If the gray material is metal that is more material from the hole. Pry some out and see if it is metallic (magnetic?) or not. If it is plastic type material that could be sealant or shavings. I can't see into the hole well enough to see if the threads are messed up or not.
Take plug and pictures to the dealer and let them help decide what to do.
I think it would be unusual to strip that size bolt but if you got it started cross threaded that could do it
I think you will end up having to repair the threads in the hole and replace the plug.

The sealing arrangement is know as "dowty" washer and the washers should be replaced occasionally. For drains I tend to always replace the rubber style but reuse copper style after 1 or 2 uses


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[NEPA Guy]

Ug. That's what I was afraid of. I'll bring it to the dealer as you suggested. I googled on fixing cross threaded holes. As I've never done it before, it should be exciting. Especially upside down. The youtube videos I found show guys blowing out the shavings with air but I guess I'll try to use a vacuum so I don't get any shavings up in the hole. Ironic.

Are there any all in one kits that one would recommend to buy to get the job done? Is the metal different or anything else I should know?

I see guys using inserting heli coils, or will a simple tap be sufficient? Or will that depend on the severity of the damage.

It's always something.

 

[D2Cat]

Sure looks like the threads are galled to me. Just be thankful it's a drain plug not threads to a banjo fitting requiring additional removal of parts.

I agree with Russell, check with your dealer since it's a new machine. Maybe some insurance may be in effect.

You'll probably have to tap to a larger size. Here's some info about threads and problems.

https://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Article - Galling.pdf

 

[Russell King]

You will probably have to get the kit (drill bit, tap, insert, and installation tool) from the dealer, Kubota uses a lot of fine and extra fine threads so you may not find one elsewhere. You might be able to order a kit online or get from a bolt dealer. Get the new plug from dealer, figure out thread size and pitch first.

Chasing the existing threads might work but you need good advice on that since it is a very important threads that you don't want to fail and drain fluid during operations


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[torch]

That bolt has been over-tightened and stripped the threads out of the casting. It may not have been when you re-tightened it, it is possible it was overtightened previously and this was just the final straw.

Rethreading oversize is the only viable option now. Depending on how much meat is left to work with, a bushing might be a better long-term option for sealing fluid than a heli-coil insert. Either way, coat the tap with grease when you re-thread the hole (to capture chips). Clean the threads well with a cotton swab sprayed with brake cleaner; and finally, install the insert or bushing with permanent (red) locktite so it's not trying to come with the bolt every time you change the oil in the future.

 

[William1]

Best fix is a Time-Sert, next best is a Helicoil.

A drill with grease to catch shavings, compressed air applied at another location to blow the sparf out, tapped (greased) for the repair and install the insert with red loctite.
Next time, bolt in finger tight and barely snug.

 

[NEPA Guy]

Thank you for the advice. I'll be on my way to the dealer asap. I will follow up with what they recommend and take a few shots and post an update as soon as I can get started.

Being that I'll be working under the tractor I'm concerned the lack of workable space may be my biggest disadvantage. I guess I can try to jack it up if I need to.

I also see some people use drill presses to guarantee a straight line, and a torque wrench for when the job is done as not to over tighten and ruin the job.

I bought a semi-inexpensive torque wrench years ago from sears for swapping winter tires on my cars that I never used. After speaking to a mechanic, he said they were a pita, hard to know when they were really accurate, and they need to be recalibrated all the time. He talked me out of using one saying that just by hand tightening simple things like for fluid changes and the like would be fine. Just to never use an impact wrench or air gun. I guess I can try it out to tighten the bolt when I'm done.

Being that I drained the UDT fluid already does leaving it empty for extended periods of time affect the implements? Meaning will I need to do anything special to get all the fluid back up to where it needs to be or follow some procedure as not to damage internal components?

Since I moved back I've been invaded with bats in my chimney, starlings in my garage, a mouse in my wife's car, and a turkey in my basement.
So I jammed a paper towel in the hole just in case a garter snake decides to makes a home in the transmission.

 

[Diydave]

You don't have to rethread to metric specs, just measure the hole, re drill, tap to the next size up pipe thread fitting. This is hind sight, but If I had a new tractor, I would let the dealer do the first service, due to situations, like this. That way they cant accuse YOU of overtorqueing the plug.

 

[NEPA Guy]

You don't have to rethread to metric specs, just measure the hole, re drill, tap to the next size up pipe thread fitting. This is hind sight, but If I had a new tractor, I would let the dealer do the first service, due to situations, like this. That way they cant accuse YOU of overtorqueing the plug.

I hear ya, the closest dealer is 35 miles away and I don't have a trailer yet and I'm not paying the $300.00 round trip charge. I'm saving up for a good one. It's close to $4000.00 said and done, but that's another thread...

I'll see if I can convince them it was a factory issue. It was on very very tight...My bet it was over tightened to begin with. As I mentioned before, I've never in my life had this happen to me. Let alone with a simple drain plug. Not much else I can do I guess but deal with it best I can, I read up on some of the tap kits, anywhere from $60-$400..yeesh

 

[NEPA Guy]

Quick Update, they will overnight me a bolt and a pack of the seal washers. The bolt is $2.50 AND the washers $1.00 *peanuts*

When I spoke to the tech he said the grey matter in the bolt thread was most likely a sealant of sorts.

He said the the threading on the inside of the pan is made stronger so the bolt is designed to break first. Typically that's what happens. Snug it in by hand and get back to him to let him know what happened.

If not, he wants to send a road tech out to tap it. He said if I mess it up it would be a royal pita to drop the pan and have it replaced in a worse case scenario. Better to be safe than sorry.

The warranty will cover the labor cost of the tech but not the road time.

Either way I have to pay, for travel time or a tap kit on my own. I'll leave it up to the pros given the choice. I'll post an update as time allows.

Thanks again gents!

 

[Russell King]

Good luck - sounds like a good offer from the dealer to come fix it.

Be sure they let you see the repaired hole and you should get to put the plug in by hand to insure the repair is good. In theory they could just glue the plug in place and say it was repaired. I hate to be so suspicious but better to check the work before they leave or the fluid is in.


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[jnschnit]

NEPA- From your last post it sounds as if the dealer is talking about the oil pan? I hope he is sending you the correct parts.

 

[m7060]

I think 'Inschnit' is correct.... sounds like the dealer person thinks you are talking about the engine oilpan plug. May want to follow up........... good luck.

 

[Black Mud Farm]

Unless you turned the bolt the wrong direction, (a lot) when removing it you did not cause this problem. That bolt was stripped from a previous over tightening by someone else. Sounds like you have a nice dealer there I am sure they can help. Get right in there and see what he is doing if he does come out to help ya. Good luck Jeff

 

[NEPA Guy]

jnschnit/m7060- I had sent the parts guy the same image you see attached here, its the transmission drain bolt #1. Thanks for the concern but I'm sure he got it straight.(I hope! )

They said they would overnight it but I never received it, hopefully by tomorrow. If not I've got a million things to do and nothing that urgent requiring use of the tractor, so Monday at best. I'll try to clean up the grooves and hand tighten the bolt in when it arrives, if not I'll schedule the tech to come out. Either way I'll update the thread.

Black Mud Farm-Thanks for the vote of confidence, I tend to agree. I've changed fluids hundreds of times, I have 12 small engines and 2 trucks I take care of here on the compound. Not my first rodeo! This is my first diesel however.

I'll follow up as time allows. This forum is great, lotsa good people. Thx!

 

[whitetiger]

Quick Update, they will overnight me a bolt and a pack of the seal washers. The bolt is $2.50 AND the washers $1.00 *peanuts*

When I spoke to the tech he said the grey matter in the bolt thread was most likely a sealant of sorts. Kubota does not use any sealer on a drain plug with a sealing washer.

He said the the threading on the inside of the pan is made stronger so the bolt is designed to break first. Typically that's what happens. Snug it in by hand and get back to him to let him know what happened. The threads are aluminum and the drain plug is steel.

If not, he wants to send a road tech out to tap it. He said if I mess it up it would be a royal pita to drop the pan and have it replaced in a worse case scenario. Better to be safe than sorry. FWIW the oil pan is a very simple R&R on your tractor.

The warranty will cover the labor cost of the tech but not the road time.

Either way I have to pay, for travel time or a tap kit on my own. I'll leave it up to the pros given the choice. I'll post an update as time allows. If it is under warrenty, Kubota will want the dealer to replace the Mid PTO housing. It is just 4 bolts and a linkage to remove, very simple repair.

Thanks again gents!

You need to make sure that you and the dealer are on the same page or find a different dealer.

 

[ihfr]

I hear you brother. Same EXACT thing happened to me on my first change. No way I over torqued or cross threaded the bolt. I enjoy my KUBOTA, but have not been too impressed with their overall quality control on things like this. ..grease fittings installed crooked, brake pedal springs snap and other minor but pita annoying things

 

[NEPA Guy]

You need to make sure that you and the dealer are on the same page or find a different dealer.

Wow. He was that off. That's disconcerting. Thanks for the info.

I'll pay another dealer a visit Monday morning and see if they can help.

I swear. I'm surrounded by morons.

 

[NEPA Guy]

I hear you brother. Same EXACT thing happened to me on my first change. No way I over torqued or cross threaded the bolt. I enjoy my KUBOTA, but have not been too impressed with their overall quality control on things like this. ..grease fittings installed crooked, brake pedal springs snap and other minor but pita annoying things

Maybe this thread belongs under the "What About Your Tractor Makes You Swear?" lol

YEESH!