Slow Moving Loader

[Frbe62]

Hello All,

I've been trying to figure out what's wrong with the loader on my 1983 L235DT. It has been moving really slow and it cannot pick up any weight. The 3 PT hitch has no trouble picking up a 5" box blade but it doesn't seem to be as fast as it used to be. I took a look at the hydraulic relief valve and found two bits of metal inside the casing (photos are attached) . The larger piece is just under 1/4" long and the other piece is about half that size. The larger piece looks smooth on one side. What steps should I take next?

Thanks,
Fred

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

That looks to be bits of the gears from the pump, pull the pump and check it.

 

[Frbe62]

That looks to be bits of the gears from the pump, pull the pump and check it.

North Idaho Wolfman,

I will pull the pump as you suggest. Will I be able to see the damage from either the input or discharge openings? Is there any other areas in the hydraulic system that I will need to check for metal fragments? Is there anything special I need to do when/if I need to replace the pump?

Thanks again for your help!
Fred

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

On some model you can see the gears through the inlet port as it's larger, but the real reveal will be had if you open it up.
if there is nothing there then you'll need to look at the loader valve assembly, and at the whole relief valve assembly, for anything else that has failed.
You could have chips in the Loader valve, inlet or even in the three point valve.

 

[Frbe62]

On some model you can see the gears through the inlet port as it's larger, but the real reveal will be had if you open it up.
if there is nothing there then you'll need to look at the loader valve assembly, and at the whole relief valve assembly, for anything else that has failed.
You could have chips in the Loader valve, inlet or even in the three point valve.

Thanks for the advice! Can the pump be rebuilt and would you recommend a rebuild?

Should I look for metal fragments either way by at least taking the hoses off the loader valve and opening up the 3 pt cylinder?

Thanks again,
Fred

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Thanks for the advice! Can the pump be rebuilt and would you recommend a rebuild?

Should I look for metal fragments either way by at least taking the hoses off the loader valve and opening up the 3 pt cylinder?

Thanks again,
Fred

I wouldn't rebuild, get a new pump.

You only need to go looking for metal broken parts if it's not the pump gears.
Most likely the rest of any pieces will have gone to the sump, the ones you found were just big enough to get trapped in the pressure relief valve.

 

[Frbe62]

I wouldn't rebuild, get a new pump.

You only need to go looking for metal broken parts if it's not the pump gears.
Most likely the rest of any pieces will have gone to the sump, the ones you found were just big enough to get trapped in the pressure relief valve.

Got it. I’ll let you know what I find.

Thank you!
Fred

 

[Frbe62]

I wouldn't rebuild, get a new pump.

You only need to go looking for metal broken parts if it's not the pump gears.
Most likely the rest of any pieces will have gone to the sump, the ones you found were just big enough to get trapped in the pressure relief valve.

Hello North Idaho Wolfman.

I checked the pump pressure before removing it and it only showed 850 lbs at max.

No damage could be seen through the intake or discharge. The shaft could not be turned by hand initially but it freed up easily with the help of a pair of channel locks. The pump seemed to have some rough spots when turned by hand, it seemed like something was binding inside. I took the pump apart and couldn't find any major damage but the gears seemed to be worn. The apposing gears seemed to have corresponding striations of wear.

I ordered a new pump. Are there any precautions to take before or while installing the new pump? Does the pump need to be filled or primed first?

Thank you,
Fred

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Hello North Idaho Wolfman.

I checked the pump pressure before removing it and it only showed 850 lbs at max.

No damage could be seen through the intake or discharge. The shaft could not be turned by hand initially but it freed up easily with the help of a pair of channel locks. The pump seemed to have some rough spots when turned by hand, it seemed like something was binding inside. I took the pump apart and couldn't find any major damage but the gears seemed to be worn. The apposing gears seemed to have corresponding striations of wear.

I ordered a new pump. Are there any precautions to take before or while installing the new pump? Does the pump need to be filled or primed first?

Thank you,
Fred

Nope no prefilling required.
Your pressure could have been low because the relief valve had parts stuck in it, doesn't allow the system to build proper pressure.

 

[Frbe62]

Nope no prefilling required.
Your pressure could have been low because the relief valve had parts stuck in it, doesn't allow the system to build proper pressure.

North Idaho Wolfman,

I took another look at a the old pump and found the housing was deteriated. I installed the new pump and still slow moving loader and 3 point hitch. I took apart the block the the relief valve mounts to and found more metal particles. I took apart the relief valve again and found no metal. I put everything back together and no change. I disconnected the loader quick connects and no change to the speed of the 3 point hitch. I connected the loader connections and now the 3 point hitch will not rise. Loader still works but slow and I haven’ tried to pick up a load.

The metal particles that were removed from the relief valve block are not aluminum as they were picked up with a magnet. The shape of the metal particles do not appear to be from any part(s) of the hydraulic pump.

Any ideas on what to do next?

Thank you,
Fred

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Take some pictures of the Hydraulic Lines so I can see where they go to and from.

 

[Frbe62]

Take some pictures of the Hydraulic Lines so I can see where they go to and from.

Will do. It will be the weekend before I get back out to where the tractor is located.

Thank you,
Fred

 

[Frbe62]

Take some pictures of the Hydraulic Lines so I can see where they go to and from.

North Idaho Wolfman,

I checked the hose routing diagram on the loader manual and found that the return and carryover lines were reversed. I corrected those connections with no change in the speed of the loader but I could hear a whining noise coming from the relief valve/flow diverter block. I removed the plug and cap I put on the connections to the power steering pump fittings and installed a bypass hose to connect the pressure feed to the return fitting on the top of the transmission. The three point hitch raised quickly and the loader works perfectly. I was able to pick up a heaping bucket load of dirt quickly and easily. I can easily lift the front wheels off the ground by tilting and lowering the bucket. I guess that blocking off the power steering connections was my problem all along? I would almost bet that it worked fine for a period of time after I blocked those connections off. Anyway the loader has plenty of power and it's a pleasure to have it working again.

Thanks so much for your help and I apologize for my ignorance.
Fred

 

[Dave_eng]

You are not alone is having put lines in the wrong places. Depending on how many lines are in the wrong place, it drives owners crazy trying to switch lines until things work

Now that everything is working great is the time to clearly mark what goes where.

For quick connects, you can buy the different colored caps and plugs you see on the work ports of FEL valves.

For the lines which are permanently screwed into the valve body, use some paint and mark on the valve body and on the end of the hose matching colors.

For the quick coupler items, the ones you need will need to be the ones made for your style of quick connect.

Dave

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Excellent, glad to hear you got it going!

 

[Frbe62]

You are not alone is having put lines in the wrong places. Depending on how many lines are in the wrong place, it drives owners crazy trying to switch lines until things work

Now that everything is working great is the time to clearly mark what goes where.

For quick connects, you can buy the different colored caps and plugs you see on the work ports of FEL valves.

For the lines which are permanently screwed into the valve body, use some paint and mark on the valve body and on the end of the hose matching colors.

For the quick coupler items, the ones you need will need to be the ones made for your style of quick connect.

Dave

Dave,

Thanks for your input. I will mark the lines as you suggested.

Fred