Sheilding gas

[dieseldude]

Good evening,

I'm getting things together to do some body work on my truck. Some of this includes welding in new panels. I'm just curious as to what sheild gas I should be using. It seems that pure argon or 75% argon / 25% CO2 seems to be most used.

All the metal will be 22ga hss steel. Also, what's the opinion on brazing in new panels?

 

[WFM]

I use pure Argon for tig welding and the c02 mix for mig welding...as far as brazing...my dad was a master and could braze your panels or anything else,,,not me I'd stich tac weld them in place..grind and use filler...

 

[ETRon]

Dieseldude..

The agron mix is plenty good for any mig body work. You could use plain CO2 but the welds won't be as pretty. I've used both and prefer the mix. I think it makes a stronger weld as well. BTW...... no one brazes anymore I'm aware of. At least not anyone in the business. Brazing rod sets up too much galvanic action under it all and to stick braze it (steel) will put too much heat into most any light panel. Better to tack the panel and fill if you overlap or if you spread it out you can butt weld across a whole panel. You just have to spot tack it in place all the way across to hold it in place and cut down on warpage.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Third on mix gas and Mig welding!
Way to much heat and distortion with brazing!

 

[Kennyd4110]

4th here for the 75/25 mix for MIG welding steel.

 

[jimbo913]

As others have stated Argon/C02 mix (75/25) for mild steel. 100% Argon for welding aluminum.

 

[jd6512]

def. 75/25 and use .023 wire for best results. Also better off overlapping than butt welding, double thickness results in less warpage. Harbor Freight sells a cheap "flange" tool that puts a step in the edge of the panel so they still lie flush on the outside. Spot weld, move around to avoid overheating, eventually it will be basically welded complete. ( I do this for a living, 35 yrs.)

 

[dieseldude]

Thanks everyone for your input. I thought thats the answers I was going to get.
Next time I'm at the local welding shop I'll see what they want to swap out my 20CF new (10 yrs. old, never filled) cylinder for a full C25 one. Seeing how I might do some aluminum in the future (another project) might price out a 20CF in argon.

JD6512, funny you should mention flanging with the harbor freight tool, That was my plan weather brazing or welding all along.

Now all I have to figure is weather or not to remove the computer modules, cant afford to burn one of them out.

Thanks again everyone, Much apperciated.

 

[Wildfire]

75-25 mix for mig as well but I never use mig for welding vehicle panels. I find the wire to hard for doing body work after.
Tig filler wire is softer and easy to work with after the welding process is done but hey, that's maybe just be me

 

[jd6512]

just disconnect the battery and all modules/airbags will be safe. We use an " anti zap" unit clamped onto both battery terminals so we don't have to disconnect battery just to save peoples radio presets,power seat memory, etc...

 

[skeets]

Just a little side note here, we just redid my nephews 99 GMC truck, cab corners door panels and the usual stuff. A friend of Little Brothers brought over some sort of an adhesive they use in the body shop. I said this will never work and he smiled,, laid everything out drilled a couple of holes for pop rivets cleaned everything down to bear metal, shot the glue on popped it in place and when the glue set, ground off the rivet heads. Very little filling to do and it turned out not half bad. Little Brothers bud told me that was the same stuff he used on his truck 5 years ago and nothing has ever fallen off..

 

[dieseldude]

Wildfire:
I'd love to be able to heliarc it in, can't beat the heat control and accuracy. Unfourtunatly I don't have access to a machine, so MIG it is for me. Another wrench to add into the plan is having to do it outside. I guess I'll have to get creative to avoid breezes. As for the wire being hard after welding, the plan is to cut out the rust, flange the cab metal and plug weld in the new part. It should leave little to grind down and only a little body filler needed. sound about right?

JD6512:
I had though of that but remember reading somewhere where the "anti-zap" things aren't compatible with the ford powerstroke engine. I'll have to look into that again. Thanks for the tip.

Skeets:
Adheasive, very interesting. Any idea what it was called?

 

[ipz2222]

Can a mig welder be used to weld aluminum???

 

[dieseldude]

ipz2222:
Short answer yes. The best way, no. Thin materials present a challange, wire tends to build up in feeder. In my opinion best to use a spool gun.

Wildfire can probably give you a much better answer.

 

[jimbo913]

You can push aluminum 10' and up to 15' if the cable is straight. Larger diameters feed better. 5000 series has more column strength so less feeding issues than with 4000 series.
Use 100% Argon gas, and the less neck bend the better. Use teflon liners and u-groove drive rolls (4 roll feeders are best). Dont over tension the drive rolls as you can deform the wire.
Use 1 size larger tip as the aluminum wire expands and will sieze in the tip if you dont. Clean the metal with a dedicated stainless brush. Push the arc instead of pulling it. If you want the rolled quarters look, just advance and pause, advance and pause.

 

[dieseldude]

Can the same U-groove feed rollers be used on steel wire or do the have to be changed out everytime? Also this the second time I've heard of teflon liners. Whats the difference?

 

[jimbo913]

It is best to use seperate drive rolls to avoid contamination. Steel drive rolls are generally V-groove.

Teflon liners are plastic type which are slick to enhance feeding. Standard liners for steel wires are steel monocoil and would not feed as well, plus you dont want to run aluminum over steel as I stated before.

 

[dieseldude]

Thanks for the tip jimbo. Until recently I never knew they made teflon liners. Have to see if one is made for my magnum 100l gun.

Thanks again.

 

[Paulwestski]

What Make, model and year is the truck?
If it's a ford you'll need to unplug quite a few modules and the instrument panel.

Quote
Q123R2.doc Date Revised: 7/17/07
Aftermarket Plasma Cutting/ Welding Operations on F250-550 Trucks
Models Affected: All F250-550 trucks; Model Year 2008 and later.

Recommendations: Perform the following operations prior to any plasma cutting/welding operations on new vehicles.
Following completion of the plasma cutting/electric welding operations, reconnect all disconnected
units in reverse order.
1. Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position and remove the key from the ignition switch.
2. Disconnect all battery cables from all batteries.
(Refer to Attachment I and II)
3. Disconnect all three connectors from the Powertrain Control Module.
(For diesel engines refer to Attachment III, steps 1-5; for gas engines refer to Attachment
IV, steps 1-2)
4. Disconnect all seven connectors from the Smart Power Distribution Junction Box (SPDJB).
(Refer to Attachment V and VI), steps 2-4)
5. Disconnect the ABS Module connector.
(Refer to Attachment VII, step 2)
6. Disconnect the fuel tank connector or connectors (dual tanks) from the fuel sender on the
fuel tank.
7. Disconnect Instrument Cluster connector. (Refer to Attachment VIII, steps 2-7)
Trucks intended to function as mobile arc welding platforms will need to be designed to eliminate any
electrical interaction between the truck's electrical system and any conductive surface that comes in
direct contact to the item to be welded. Electrical isolation of the welding surface can be achieved by
use of highly resistive barriers (i.e. Teflon, etc.). The barrier must include any fasteners that connect a
conductive surface to the truck.
Warranty Statement: Before electric welding or plasma cutting on the frame or body of F250-550 units, disconnect the
battery, instrument cluster, SPDJB, ABS module and the PCM . Just disconnecting a battery cable is
not enough to prevent damage to these components. Damage seen in newly-constructed trucks has
been traced back to welding. Electronic module damage due to this customer or vehicle modifier
action is not covered in vehicle warranty.
If you have any questions, please contact the Ford Truck Body Builders Advisory Service as shown in the header of this
bulletin.
QVM Bulletin: Q-123-R2 Date: July 17, 2007
Revised:

 

[Paulwestski]

2005 link
https://www.fleet.ford.com/TRUCKBBAS/non-html/Q123R1.pdf

Master link to the site
https://www.fleet.ford.com/TRUCKBBAS/topics/hotinfo.html

Good luck.
I wanted to add two more receiver hitches to my truck (for a total of three ) to support a huge cargo box and ended up removing the entire hitch assembly to weld them on.