Need a measurement

[A.O.]

I'm having difficulty with the breakout force on the bucket on my kubota L3540 with a LA724 loader with the QD bucket system.

Just got the tractor back from the dealer, they went through the whole hydraulic system and also turned the pressure to max specs.. the problem is still there.

The Kubota tech noticed the bucket I have is not a Kubota bucket but an old bucket made up by the previous owner to work on the QD system. It did not go with the tractor to the dealer, it had the grapple on it.

Anyway, he's thinking that the bucket is to long giving up its proper leverage, so what I'm needing is the distance from the hydraulic cylinder pin to the leading edge of the bucket for comparison to the one I have now. He did not have this model loader/bucket on his lot to measure nor could we find measured drawings showing this distance.. your help would be much apreciated.

This is a side picture of my current bucket, distance from that pin to leading edge of my bucket is right at 35 inches.



Thanks.

 

[hivo]

Mine is 31 inches WITHOUT QD bucket. Maybe this will help.
HIVO

 

[A.O.]

Mine is 31 inches WITHOUT QD bucket. Maybe this will help.
HIVO[/QUOT
Thanks...
Not a whole lot of difference then.. LA724 loader/stock bucket?

 

[ShaunRH]

Not sure if it's the distance but that bucket angle for 'neutral' (aka flat, 0°, etc.) looks a bit odd to me as well.

You might have a combination of issues adding up to one big one. Have you been able to measure your 'breakout force' (bucket curl is what I'm thinking you are referring to) directly? I seem to recall that someone said on some of the newer units they need their hydraulic power boosted a bit from factory to get the performance the older units enjoyed...

 

[A.O.]

Talked to the dealer today, he measured the bucket that is stock on the 724 QD loader from the leading edge of the bucket straight back to the mounting surface of the QD, his measured at 20", mine was 28ish.. thats an increase of about 30%.. quite a but as far as leverage goes..

 

[A.O.]

Not sure if it's the distance but that bucket angle for 'neutral' (aka flat, 0°, etc.) looks a bit odd to me as well.

You might have a combination of issues adding up to one big one. Have you been able to measure your 'breakout force' (bucket curl is what I'm thinking you are referring to) directly? I seem to recall that someone said on some of the newer units they need their hydraulic power boosted a bit from factory to get the performance the older units enjoyed...

Not sure how you would measure breakout force..

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The SSQA adapter is installed wrong!
I'm shocked that the dealer didn't notice that right off the get go.... Wait no I'm not.

Simple remove the bucket links.
Sadly since it looks like the have rigged the bucket it may be all out of whack when you fix the setup.
If that's the case, buy a new unaltered bucket!

This is the way they have it mounted now, it's for a pin on bucket, except they have added the SSQA adapter:

This is how it's supposed to be mounted, links come off and rams mount directly to the SSQA adapter.

 

[A.O.]

The SSQA adapter is installed wrong!
I'm shocked that the dealer didn't notice that right off the get go.... Wait no I'm not.

Simple remove the bucket links.
Sadly since it looks like the have rigged the bucket it may be all out of whack when you fix the setup.
If that's the case, buy a new unaltered bucket!

This is the way they have it mounted now, it's for a pin on bucket, except they have added the SSQA adapter:

This is how it's supposed to be mounted, links come off and rams mount directly to the SSQA adapter.

Well you had me going with this, went looked at the tractor and sure enough that's how it is. To change it I would need longer cylinders by 10" to a foot.
so some investigation was in order..

Got out my WSM's, operators manuals, and the original assembly instructions.. Sure enough, the bottom diagram you have is correct.. For the LA514, but your top diagram is the way that the LA724 & LA854 are put together, not sure why but they are different. Maybe the way that boom bends like a banana there is no room for a straight cylinder there.

I have the diagram in my manual but I don't know how to get it on here so I included a little video I found showing the set up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sx9FH73vD4

I'm probably going to buy a new stock bucket that originally went with this loader.. $781 out the door and in stock!

 

[ShaunRH]

Not sure how you would measure breakout force..

Well, that depends on what your definition of it would be. In this case I'm assuming (and I could be entirely wrong) it's the rotational torque of the bucket in curling upward (breaking out of the soil after digging 'into' it).

You could measure it mechanically with weights on a chain off the lip of the bucket, or with a scale capable of handling the forces involved (put the scale on the lip of the bucket and a steel pole up against the top of some immoveable overhang and on the scale then curl the bucket until the scale hits its max measurement or the tractor tilts downward lifting the back tires)

The issue is that it is possible the 'breakout force' is actually limited by what weight you have past your towers. The hydraulics may be capable of lifting more than you have behind the pivot point!

 

[A.O.]

OK, UPDATE....

Bought a new bucket for this tractor, the one that would have originally come on this loader.
Pretty much fixed my problem, back to digging little stumps out of the ground as I should be able to!
Still need to work on/practice operating it along with the HST, a bit different than I'm used to.

OH... did I mention its all a nice shiney orange? My favorite color!

Old bucket...



New bucket...



$700 I wasn't planning on spending, but its doing what it should so I'm ok with it.