Locked engine: v2203 in L2850... suggestions?

[Unwired]

Hoping for guidance...

The engine locked up while being used. Just suddenly stopped.

The oil on the dip stick looked good.

Coolant looked good.

Pulled the glow plugs. They were dry, tried to turn the engine with them out... nothing.

Drained the oil. No metal or foreign fluids, etc.

Tractor rolls in neutral and with the clutch pushed.

So any suggestions on what to check next?

My thoughts are pull the oil pan, valve cover, front gear case, hydraulic pump, injector pump...

I'm hoping for suggestions to narrow down the list so I don't tear the whole tractor apart needlessly. Thanks

 

[D2Cat]

If it stopped that fast, you probably have something loose, broken or bent in the lower end. But I'd remove the valve cover first and see what's going on there. Make sure you don't have a valve hung up, or a pushrod bent.

Then I would begin by removing the oil pan and see what it look like. Don't do anything to the injection at this point. After the oil pan the next item of removal will be the head.

 

[lugbolt]

Smell the oil. Does it smell burnt?

Remove oil filter and cut it open. What's inside? What kinds of metals are you seeing inside of it?

Easiest way to cut filter open is with a filter cutter. If you don't have one, grab a screwdriver and drive it through the filter closest to the mounting flange, on the outside. Once you h ave a hole, take a pair of pliers and work the metal around like opening a can of sardines. You can then remove the filter element, and inspect the bottom of the filter canister. You can also inspect the element itself as it's just a piece of material like cardboard, just pull the pleats apart and you will see what's in it-if anything.

Lots of copper/brass-you're looking at bearings at the very least. Aluminum usually means piston seizure. Steel/iron parts....get ready to spend some money on it.

If no metals are found in the filter, you may find a hydraulic pump seizure or maybe a clutch problem or something along those lines.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Drop the oil and filter Like Lugbolt said.
Pull the valve cover like D2Cat said.
Pull the hydraulic pump.

After that pull the oil pan.

 

[Unwired]

Ok, I had few people do the sniff test on the oil. They said it just smelled like used oil to them. (I can't smell anything, so I have to rely on others)

I found nothing in the oil filter.

Everything looks normal under the valve cover.

Pulled the hydraulic pump, it seems ok and the engine doesn't turn with it removed.

Hoping to get to the oil pan Sunday afternoon.

 

[Daren Todd]

I get that quite frequently through the shop. But rarely is the motor bad. But when you deal with diesel driven pumps, it throws a whole new "what the heck" into the situation.

Had three brand new units shipped in. Sent them out to job sites. Ended up chasing after them over the next two days . All three locked up tight. Come to find out, whomever set up the motor, used a fan belt on all three that was 4 sizes to small One wiped out a bearing in the belt tensioner and made the motor stall out and lock up. The other two wiped out the bearing in the alternator causing the same thing.

Our other tech spent three hours diagnosing the issue on site for the third one. Was willing to bet his pay check the motor was toast. I rolled in with a new pump to swap out the locked one. As soon as I got out of the truck I said to him" You wanna see something that's gonna p#ss you off?!!!!" Pulled out a knife, cut the fan belt on the unit that was locked up, and removed it. Hit the key and the engine started right up. That tech had a melt down He had the correct belt and alternator on his truck

Had some wiring melt down on one piece of equipment. Shorted out the wire from key switch to starter. Starter engaged while engine was running. Starter melted down and stayed engaged to the fly wheel. When the bearings went in the starter, motor stopped dead.

Sometimes you get lucky and the solution to a locked motor is so foolish and simple it gets over looked

 

[Unwired]

I wish it could be that easy, the first two things I removed were the starter and belt. Not by any wisdom, just thought I might have a bad starter at first, then needed more room to get to the front of the engine.

Thanks everyone for your help, keep it coming.

Rob

 

[Unwired]

Ok, I finally found enough time to get the oil pan off... what a PITA. I found what appears to be both halves of a thrust bearing in the pan.

Should I assume this has caused enough damage to at least require turning the crank and replacing the bearings?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Very very odd to toss the thrust bearing!
I think you need to pull the motor and completely inspect the lower end.
If it's seized then the crank is probably beyond being salvaged.

 

[Unwired]

Since I'm short on time and really need the tractor, I'm probably just going to buy another used refer engine and put it in. I doubt I can do any level of rebuild any cheaper.

Thanks everyone for the help.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Since I'm short on time and really need the tractor, I'm probably just going to buy another used refer engine and put it in. I doubt I can do any level of rebuild any cheaper.

Thanks everyone for the help.

That is also what I found out, the damage to mine was too great, so it made more since to just swap it.

Careful with what replacement motor you get, as there are several models of the V2203 out there that will not support the hydraulic pump operation.
It looks like the newer V2203 DI engines do not have a fuel cam that will drive the gear for the pump.

 

[Unwired]

Careful with what replacement motor you get, as there are several models of the V2203 out there that will not support the hydraulic pump operation.
It looks like the newer V2203 DI engines do not have a fuel cam that will drive the gear for the pump.

That was a big issue when I swapped in the v2203. I was lucky enough to find the correct cam (used) on eBay.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

We just had another member that run into this issue and he had to have another cam ground to fit as the right cams are getting hard to find.

 

[Wild and Free]

Yep I did have a used cam modified by Delta camshafts out of Washington, was half the price of a new cam assembly. Finally got the engine assembled this weekend and was working on resealing things on the tractor itself. Just need to do a test firing of the engine on the ground to make sure all is good and no issues are found before mounting it to the tractor and buttoning it up, hopefully I will get time over the next couple weeks to get it buttoned up before the weather gets too nice and I am out boating instead.
Slow but making progress at a snails pace. It has been one challenge after another. I will start a new thread to simplify and lay out step by step what was needed to swap in a 10 year newer version refer engine in place of the original engine. Would have been a ton easier and cheaper and faster to have just swapped in an IDI 2203 instead of a newer DI and they are a lot easier to find as well. Had to look high and low for mine.

I remember in a previous thread you having clutch issues after the engine swap, this may or may not play a part in the thrust bearing failing.