L3800 injector pump pressure

[Jimbilly64]

I will try to make this complete as possible.
My buddies tractor L3800 HST diesel, got 1/2 a Jerry full of water and gas dumped into it, stalled out soon after. Bring the nice guy with a diesel background I took on the challenge. So to start the list. Tank drained fuel lines blown out filter replaced topped it off with fresh diesel. Bleed fuel lines(manually and jet start). NO DICE. Pulled glow plugs cylinders are clear. Oil is good no water or fuel in it. Coolant is also good. Pour some diesel in the intake and she will start for a min and die, double check the fuel lines and just a little bit of bubbles come out at the injector connection. Disconnect the line line on top of injector pump, and diesel barely comes out the top. Lift pump tested at 2.8psi. I can’t find a discharge pressure for the injector pump does any one know? Would like to test before I get him to spend $$$$$.

 

[Jim L.]

Also bleed by opening the air vent cock on the fuel injection pump.

Air vent cock is round knob above the oil fill on the right side of the engine. Open by turning counterclockwise. Run the engine about 30 seconds, medium throttle, and then stop the engine. Close by turning the knob clockwise.

 

[Jimbilly64]

Yes sir that’s what I meant by jet start. No dice. It won’t start under its own power without me putting some diesel into the intake much less control throttle.

 

[thepumpguysc]

There is no discharge pressure spec for the inj. pump.. The FUEL is measured in graduates..
But if its working right, the fuel should spurt out & hit the ceiling. lol
2 psi is not enough fuel pressure for the pump to pump fuel.. TRY pressurizing the fuel tank to push the fuel into the inj. pump inorder to get it to pump.. its worth a try.
It sounds as if the water that was in the fuel did abit more damage than thought..
It might have stuck the inj. pump control rack & wiped out the electric supply pump.. In that case, just remove the solenoid & pull the inj. pump & make sure the control rack slides freely.. its only a 20 minute job.
OR if u have an access plate on the side of the engine just below the inj. pump, remove IT & work the throttle..making sure the sol. is working.
The FIRST THING I would do is> remove the shut off solenoid.. u don't want to be fighting ELECTRICAL problems ALONG WITH fuel problems.. concentrate on 1 system at a time..

 

[mdhughes]

If you pull the supply line from the tank off the input to the electric pump, does the fuel flow out of the line?

I would start at the beginning of the fuel supply and work your way through it one piece at a time.

 

[Jimbilly64]

If you pull the supply line from the tank off the input to the electric pump, does the fuel flow out of the line?

I would start at the beginning of the fuel supply and work your way through it one piece at a time.

Done. Plenty of fuel flow from tank to filter, and then 2.8 - 3.0 PSI from lift pump to injector pump.

 

[Jimbilly64]

There is no discharge pressure spec for the inj. pump.. The FUEL is measured in graduates..
But if its working right, the fuel should spurt out & hit the ceiling. lol
2 psi is not enough fuel pressure for the pump to pump fuel.. TRY pressurizing the fuel tank to push the fuel into the inj. pump inorder to get it to pump.. its worth a try.
It sounds as if the water that was in the fuel did abit more damage than thought..
It might have stuck the inj. pump control rack & wiped out the electric supply pump.. In that case, just remove the solenoid & pull the inj. pump & make sure the control rack slides freely.. its only a 20 minute job.
OR if u have an access plate on the side of the engine just below the inj. pump, remove IT & work the throttle..making sure the sol. is working.
The FIRST THING I would do is> remove the shut off solenoid.. u don't want to be fighting ELECTRICAL problems ALONG WITH fuel problems.. concentrate on 1 system at a time..

yea LOL no where near the ceiling, which is what im used to on the large diesel engines. If i remove all the lines from on top of the injection pump and turn the motor over, the fuel barely rises from the 3 outlet ports on the injector pump, just enough to spill over the top and run down the threads. The injection outlet port that goes to the cylinder closest to the firewall has a slight bit more (rises maybe 1/8" above outlet port) than the one feeding the front most cylinder (spills over no rise).

 

[GBJeffOH]

Do you have 12 volt on the fuel shut off?

 

[Jimbilly64]

There is no discharge pressure spec for the inj. pump.. The FUEL is measured in graduates..
But if its working right, the fuel should spurt out & hit the ceiling. lol
2 psi is not enough fuel pressure for the pump to pump fuel.. TRY pressurizing the fuel tank to push the fuel into the inj. pump inorder to get it to pump.. its worth a try.
It sounds as if the water that was in the fuel did abit more damage than thought..
It might have stuck the inj. pump control rack & wiped out the electric supply pump.. In that case, just remove the solenoid & pull the inj. pump & make sure the control rack slides freely.. its only a 20 minute job.
OR if u have an access plate on the side of the engine just below the inj. pump, remove IT & work the throttle..making sure the sol. is working.
The FIRST THING I would do is> remove the shut off solenoid.. u don't want to be fighting ELECTRICAL problems ALONG WITH fuel problems.. concentrate on 1 system at a time..

I did pull the injection pump to check cleanliness and the slide moved freely (didn't feel like any gum or grime). I did check the electric shut off solenoid while removing the pump but i didn't try pulling it and trying to start it.

I'm pretty sure the fuel pump is a manual diaphragm style. I didn't pay too much attention to it other than putting the pressure gauge in the line but will double check.

Oh and last but not least i did try pressurizing the fuel tank but not in the professional manner as Kubota would recommend.... more along the lines of a south Texas hillbilly style of pressure test..... Only outcome from the test was a slight taste difference in my whiskey for the rest of the night.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I will try to make this complete as possible.
My buddies tractor L3800 HST diesel, got 1/2 a Jerry full of water and gas dumped into it, stalled out soon after. Bring the nice guy with a diesel background I took on the challenge. So to start the list. Tank drained fuel lines blown out filter replaced topped it off with fresh diesel. Bleed fuel lines(manually and jet start). NO DICE. Pulled glow plugs cylinders are clear. Oil is good no water or fuel in it. Coolant is also good. Pour some diesel in the intake and she will start for a min and die, double check the fuel lines and just a little bit of bubbles come out at the injector connection. Disconnect the line line on top of injector pump, and diesel barely comes out the top. Lift pump tested at 2.8psi. I can***8217;t find a discharge pressure for the injector pump does any one know? Would like to test before I get him to spend $$$$$.

I really hope your joking on some details...
"pour some diesel in the intake"


First and foremost you DO NOT pour diesel down the intake!!!!

What about a great way to toss a kubota engine in the junk pile!
It's a very high compression engine, it's not the old clunker detroit diesel that you could pour water down the intake and it would take it.

You'll be really lucky if you didn't break the pistons or bend the rods.
And if you did it will never start, or it will never run right!

So before going any further and doing any more damage do a compression test, and post the numbers you get.
If any are low, you better hope your buddy doesn't shoot very well or run very fast, as your in deep!

"before I get him to spend $$$$$"
Might be a little late for that!

Secondly you will need to pull the injection pump.

You will need to physically turn the pump upside down to get the water out of the pump.
Kubota pumps have a valley in them that will hold the water, draining and refilling will not get all the water out of the pump.
Then flush the pump with clean diesel.

The fuel being feed to the pump needs no real pressure just flow, so the lift pump is fine.

Install the pump, leave the injector lines off and set throttle to high, crank in short intervals, till fuel is ejected out of all four delivery valves.
Then connect the injector lines tightening them on the pump side and leaving them just barely loose on the injector side, again crank in short intervals, till fuel pulses out of the connection void of any bubbles, then tighten the lines and it should start, if it does not.

You will need to remove the injectors and pump and send them to be tested and rebuilt.

 

[lugbolt]

Just keep dumping the fuel down it's throat. It'll fix it once and for all if it hasn't already.

 

[Jimbilly64]

I really hope your joking on some details...
"pour some diesel in the intake"


First and foremost you DO NOT pour diesel down the intake!!!!

What about a great way to toss a kubota engine in the junk pile!
It's a very high compression engine, it's not the old clunker detroit diesel that you could pour water down the intake and it would take it.

You'll be really lucky if you didn't break the pistons or bend the rods.
And if you did it will never start, or it will never run right!

So before going any further and doing any more damage do a compression test, and post the numbers you get.
If any are low, you better hope your buddy doesn't shoot very well or run very fast, as your in deep!

"before I get him to spend $$$$$"
Might be a little late for that!

Secondly you will need to pull the injection pump.

You will need to physically turn the pump upside down to get the water out of the pump.
Kubota pumps have a valley in them that will hold the water, draining and refilling will not get all the water out of the pump.
Then flush the pump with clean diesel.

The fuel being feed to the pump needs no real pressure just flow, so the lift pump is fine.

Install the pump, leave the injector lines off and set throttle to high, crank in short intervals, till fuel is ejected out of all four delivery valves.
Then connect the injector lines tightening them on the pump side and leaving them just barely loose on the injector side, again crank in short intervals, till fuel pulses out of the connection void of any bubbles, then tighten the lines and it should start, if it does not.

You will need to remove the injectors and pump and send them to be tested and rebuilt.

To be super specific no i didnt up end a jerry in the intake more of a slight mist to see if there were any signs of life.

Most of what you have listed i have already done as can be read in the prev. posts. I found a testing facility that i will run the injectors and pump up to on Wednesday.

 

[Jimbilly64]

Just keep dumping the fuel down it's throat. It'll fix it once and for all if it hasn't already.

I'm sorry lugbot but did you have anything productive to add to this thread or do you like to troll and shit talk/type?

 

[D2Cat]

Jimbilly64, you come onto a forum asking for some help and state what you've done so far, then badmouth some who have commented. You have 7 post and call someone a troll who has over 1300 post.

You obviously did not like his answer, calling him. "...do you like to troll and shit talk/type?"

Go back and read what you posted, "Pour some diesel in the intake and she will start for a min and die." Then when he states dumping the fuel down the intake will cause problems, you come back and say, "To be super specific no i didnt up end a jerry in the intake more of a slight mist to see if there were any signs of life."

A couple of members make a comment based on what you said you did, and when they point out the fallacy of dumping fuel in the intake you get offended and make childish comments.

If you really want help, explain the actual situation in detail (and not embellished), you'll get a better answer.

When you don't like what you hear and start calling names to techs. who know what you're describing...it makes me look at your moniker and think of some of the movies and jokes I've seen in the past.

Welcome to forum, but don't wear it out with foolish comments!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Deleting all your posts will not happen, I will not let this thread slip quietly into the night.

I'm sorry if you don't like my or others comments, but they are honest and should be heeded.

Any amount of diesel introduced into the intake of a Kubota diesel can do some serious damage!

We will move forward with everyone's help in keeping it civil.

 

[lugbolt]

Read my other posts.

I don't sugar coat anything. I'm not a politician. I don't tell people what they want to hear, unless they want to hear it the way I say it.

Yeah I coulda worded it a little different. My apologies for hurting your feelings.

 

[Jimbilly64]

Read my other posts.

I don't sugar coat anything. I'm not a politician. I don't tell people what they want to hear, unless they want to hear it the way I say it.

Yeah I coulda worded it a little different. My apologies for hurting your feelings.

It's all good lugbolt I love you too.

In other news i did pull the fuel cut off solenoid checked the fuel cut off "slide" on the injection pump one more time by pulling the oil fill cover. Seems to work fine, slide freely, and well nothing comes out when its closed.

With the lines removed from the top of the injection pump its still apparent that the front port is not moving any fuel at all (unlike the back two) oh well off to the testing facility on Wednesday. If I can run by my shop this weekend i will grab my compression tester and post the results.

Icing on the cake i let my buddy know the testing facility charges $175 to test the pump. I was further advised that this wasnt the first time it had gas in it just the first time it died.............

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I was further advised that this wasnt the first time it had gas in it just the first time it died.............

Yea they don't run very well on that stuff!

 

[thepumpguysc]

Once u remove the pump it should be obvious what the prob. is..
Feel the tension on the roller assembly.. betcha the first doesn't have any tension..
Prob. just flops.??
Broken springs & stuck plungers are very common problems.
The fuel shop will NOT test it like that.. so your looking at a pump overhaul.. BE PREPARED. {open wallet}
U say it was ran w/ gas & water?? Then it obviously made it up to the injectors..
Might as well pull them too.. at the very least, have them pop tested.

 

[RCW]

Bring the nice guy with a diesel background I took on the challenge.

Icing on the cake i let my buddy know the testing facility charges $175 to test the pump. I was further advised that this wasnt the first time it had gas in it just the first time it died.............

Gosh Jim, you're just trying to help your buddy out... he's gonna owe you BIG when you get this figured out. Sounds like the tractor isn't cared for well.

You got off to a rough start, but you obviously have the skills and knowledge to make it right.

There are some smart guys here, several that turn wrenches on Kubotas every day.

I look forward to seeing you get the L3800 back in running order!

Hang in there, and welcome to OTT!