L 1200 Front End Loader Hydraulic Pump Case Cracked

Russell King

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It is probably already confirmed in the past posts but the tractor revs to higher rpms when the front pump is disconnected as far as I recall. Please confirm that is correct (again)
 

mllkn6

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L245 DT, front loader, backhoe, bushog, planters, grain drill, fertilizer sprea
Apr 29, 2017
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Williamston, SC
It is probably already confirmed in the past posts but the tractor revs to higher rpms when the front pump is disconnected as far as I recall. Please confirm that is correct (again)
Russell King,
Yes the tractor revs to higher RPMs when the front pump is not connected, runs like normal.
 

mllkn6

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L245 DT, front loader, backhoe, bushog, planters, grain drill, fertilizer sprea
Apr 29, 2017
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Torch, Dave-eng, PoTreeBoy, Russell King,
This morning at 7:30 AM I went to the shop that makes my hydraulic hoses and had them make me a 5/8" x 7'-4" with only one end on it, the lady (Trish) who usually makes the hose was off today so someone else made it, come back with 2 ends on it, ok, no problem I can deal with it.
Got it back at my shop and rigged up a 90 with a pipe on it to go into the fill line, this hose was really long for 7 " measured it and it was 9'-4" long, oh well I'll test it before going back. Screwed it directly into the pump on one end and up to the filler hose on the other end. Moment of truth so to speak.
Preheated it, pulled the decompression knob and hit the starter, fired right up, so I let it run for a few minutes to warm up, then mashed the throttle. 750 RPMs. 1200 RPMs, 2000 RPMs, 2500 RPMs, 3000 RPMs, 3300 RPMs, great it's working.
Went back to my hose place and had them shorten the hose to 7'-4" like I wanted. Went back home and hooked it up to the controls and it worked perfect, lifted the bucket and rolled it just like it should.
There is a littler whine when I let the bucket down, but not on rolling the bucket, might need to look at going with a bigger hose on the lift cylinders on the down side. The pump seems to work faster than the old one too, didn't time it but it's quick to lift and drop, even the bucket rolls faster than before.
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back with you guys, once it was working I put it right to work, been over 2 weeks and I have gotten behind, worked till 8 PM tonight, new lights bulbs work great also. Be back at it Monday as tomorrow is my day off except for feed animals. They don't care what day it is they just want to be fed. LOL
Thank you, guys, for hanging in there with me, you will never know how much I appreciate your help, I couldn't have figured it out without your help, I'm no where near the sharpest knife in the drawer, more like the dullest. LOL
Guys, Thank you. Take care and stay safe. God bless each of you.
 
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torch

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Great news! Congratulations!

(and I completely understand your need to play wi-- er, thoroughly test -- things when you finally got it all working. ;-) )
 
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Dave_eng

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Milkn6

Great news.

In effect you have been running a number of experiments which we all learned from which is excellent.

Hanging in and being willing to try suggestions from many is a great quality in yourself.

Dave
 
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PoTreeBoy

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Good news! Thanks for putting up with me. I assume you routed that hose so it doesn't hang down. Curious, are you going through the filter? TBH I had 2 concerns. 1 that the valve would be too small for that much flow and 2 that you wouldn't have enough power left to push the tractor. But it sounds like it's working good for you so that's what matters. Still curious that the other pump broke at oil/filter change.
 
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mllkn6

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L245 DT, front loader, backhoe, bushog, planters, grain drill, fertilizer sprea
Apr 29, 2017
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Williamston, SC
Great news! Congratulations!

(and I completely understand your need to play wi-- er, thoroughly test -- things when you finally got it all working. ;-) )
torch, it was like music to my ears to hear her rev up this morning, I enjoy being on the tractor, to me it doesn't get any better than a day spent doing whatever on my tractor. There are so many things I use it for around her that I honestly don't know what I'd do without it, I guess I'd just have to quite farming as it would take me forever to do things without it.
I've had people tell me to go get a new one, but I know what it can and can't do, I'm to old to go through a learning process with another one. Someday it would be nice to have a nice air conditioned cab with the radio blasting to be in, but there is something about being able to hear how it running, smell the scent of new plowing new ground, feel the sweat running down your face, the sun against your face and knowing your are doing something you love that appeals to me. I know I've done a days work when I walk in the house with my t-shirt wringing wet with sweat in the evening. I enjoy ever minute of it the good Lord gives me.
Thank you again.
 

mllkn6

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L245 DT, front loader, backhoe, bushog, planters, grain drill, fertilizer sprea
Apr 29, 2017
85
7
8
Williamston, SC
Thanks Dave and PoTreeBoy,
I am forever in everyone's debt, maybe we all did learn something from the experience, I know I did.
Everything is hooked up like it suppose to be, running through the filter and all, working good. Didn't check the temperatures today, but will Monday just to see what they are, but the filter didn't seem to be getting hot like it was the few time I touched it to check.
The other pump actually cracked after I changed oil, filter and hoses a few weeks before, I'm not sure what size the old pressure hose was but I think they made it wrong or to small which I think caused the crack. The cylinder lines are all 3/8", I took the pressure hose with me to get one made to replace it as they were making the ones for the cylinders, I think they accidently made a 3/8" hose for it also and it was suppose to be 5/8". I didn't get the old hoses back either.
But it's all water under the bridge so to speak now. I'll probably change out the two hoses on the lift cylinder to 1/2" if the whining keeps up when I let the lift down.
I think this pump is more efficiency than the old one as it seems to work faster than the old one, course the old one was 43 years old too.
Thanks again, guys, take care and stay safe.
 

torch

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but there is something about being able to hear how it running, smell the scent of new plowing new ground, feel the sweat running down your face, the sun against your face and knowing your are doing something you love that appeals to me. I know I've done a days work when I walk in the house with my t-shirt wringing wet with sweat in the evening. I enjoy ever minute of it the good Lord gives me.
I think I get what you are saying; you sound a lot like me trying to explain to the uninitiated why I ride a motorcycle, regardless of the weather, when I have a perfectly good truck sitting there at home. There is a certain something missing when one is isolated from the world in a cab.
 

mllkn6

Member

Equipment
L245 DT, front loader, backhoe, bushog, planters, grain drill, fertilizer sprea
Apr 29, 2017
85
7
8
Williamston, SC
I think I get what you are saying; you sound a lot like me trying to explain to the uninitiated why I ride a motorcycle, regardless of the weather, when I have a perfectly good truck sitting there at home. There is a certain something missing when one is isolated from the world in a cab.
You right torch, love riding my bike almost as much as my tractor. There is a freedom that comes with both you don't find doing anything else, all alone with your thoughts and the freedom to do as you please.
 

Mjordan

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Kubota L295
Sep 7, 2020
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Indiana
Thanks Dave and PoTreeBoy,
I am forever in everyone's debt, maybe we all did learn something from the experience, I know I did.
Everything is hooked up like it suppose to be, running through the filter and all, working good. Didn't check the temperatures today, but will Monday just to see what they are, but the filter didn't seem to be getting hot like it was the few time I touched it to check.
The other pump actually cracked after I changed oil, filter and hoses a few weeks before, I'm not sure what size the old pressure hose was but I think they made it wrong or to small which I think caused the crack. The cylinder lines are all 3/8", I took the pressure hose with me to get one made to replace it as they were making the ones for the cylinders, I think they accidently made a 3/8" hose for it also and it was suppose to be 5/8". I didn't get the old hoses back either.
But it's all water under the bridge so to speak now. I'll probably change out the two hoses on the lift cylinder to 1/2" if the whining keeps up when I let the lift down.
I think this pump is more efficiency than the old one as it seems to work faster than the old one, course the old one was 43 years old too.
Thanks again, guys, take care and stay safe.

All, good afternoon, I have been reading this thread and it seems to help me with my predicament. I have an L2773 FEL on my L295 tractor. It has a self contained oil reservoir and a front PTO Hydraulic Pump. When I active the loader or the bucket it pulls down the motor. If I am less than half throttle it kills the tractor, if above half it works just fine. I have attached some pictures. I am going to change the pressure side out of my pump and remove the 90 elbow to relieve some pressure. I have always though since this is just a problem when I operate the valves then it is a valve body problem, but after reading this, who knows. Any suggestions where I go next? The valves do leak of which I was going to put a seal kit in when I get the chance. The tractor runs fine turning the pump without using the loader valves, unlike MLLN6 where his stalled from the start. Any help is appreciated sirs. Happy 4th of July!
 

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PoTreeBoy

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First, people may not see the new part of your post, because it is hidden inside the "[/QUOTE]" tag. If you can, edit that and move the tag.

Second, it looks like a hydraulic hose may have been recently replaced with a smaller hose. Did your problem by chance start when that hose was replaced? Tell us more about when the problem started.
 

Dieseldonato

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Looks like it needs to spend some time at a hydraulic shop and get new lines and hoses made up. Also your not making a lot of engine power at low rpm, and depending on the size of pump may require more power then available at low rpm to keep it spinning while under load.
 

torch

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B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Jun 10, 2016
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Muskoka, Ont.
The buried post byMjordan:

All, good afternoon, I have been reading this thread and it seems to help me with my predicament. I have an L2773 FEL on my L295 tractor. It has a self contained oil reservoir and a front PTO Hydraulic Pump. When I active the loader or the bucket it pulls down the motor. If I am less than half throttle it kills the tractor, if above half it works just fine. I have attached some pictures. I am going to change the pressure side out of my pump and remove the 90 elbow to relieve some pressure. I have always though since this is just a problem when I operate the valves then it is a valve body problem, but after reading this, who knows. Any suggestions where I go next? The valves do leak of which I was going to put a seal kit in when I get the chance. The tractor runs fine turning the pump without using the loader valves, unlike MLLN6 where his stalled from the start. Any help is appreciated sirs. Happy 4th of July!

You don't mention if the problem is with a loaded bucket, or empty. There is a considerable difference.

A brief explanation of the system:

This is an open center system. When the controls are in the neutral position, the pump just circulates the hydraulic fluid and very little pressure is developed. It does not work the engine very hard to circulate fluid. How much pressure is developed is a function of the "friction loss" of the hydraulic piping. Friction loss is the pressure required to push the fluid through the line. Small diameter pipes and sharp turns increase friction loss. High flow rates also increase friction loss. At the pump, friction loss is seen as back pressure.

Put simply, small pipes and hoses can handle low flow rates, high flow rates require larger diameter hoses. In the original poster's issue, it seems the hoses were so small that there was a significant back pressure on the pump even in neutral. The effect was a significant load on the engine even in neutral. In your case, it sounds like the hoses are adequately sized as the engine has no problem with the controls in neutral.

When a control lever is activated, fluid is redirected to one or more cylinders. As the cylinder apply force against weight, the engine power provides the force (in the form of power = force x velocity) and pressure begins to rise in the system. The engine can provide more power at higher rpm and less power at idle.

The amount of force required depends on the weight of the load and rate of lifting, which in turn is dependent on the diameter of the cylinders vs the capacity of the pump. Increasing the diameter of the cylinders for a given pump size will slow the cylinder movement, but require less force (and therefore power) to lift a given load. Increasing the pump size for a given cylinder diameter will speed the cylinder movement, but require more power to lift a load.

Engine power = engine torque x speed. So revving the engine up provides more power (to a point, eventually torque drops off).

So to put it all together: it sounds like your system is working as designed, assuming the FEL lifts a loaded bucket although it may be oversized for the tractor. You have 3 choices:
1. increase engine RPM to meet the needs of the system.
2. replace the pump with a smaller capacity unit that puts less load on the tractor - at the cost of speed. .
3. increase the cylinder diameters to reduce the power requirement -- at the cost of speed.

Eliminating sharp bends like that elbow will help reduce friction loss -- but the effect will be marginal.
 
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