Hey Vic and pro fabricators....?

[WinnieCouple]

I have a L245DT with a FEL, and a few weeks back the front frame assembly snapped a corner off of the engine block at one of the mounting bolts. *using the FEL and NOT overworking it...
WELL... after getting her up on stands and and pulling the entire front end off. All I can say is it was a POOR DESIGN for the front end of a 4x4 tractor.
Yes, its only 25hp, but I'm sure its NOT the only tractor to have this problem.

It looks like its had 4 helicoils, and one stepped up/tapped out larger. So, its been a problem for this tractor.

So... buying and replacing the BLOCK is out of the question, it wouldnt cure the problem.
My intent is to fabricate a front subframe, bolt some plate to the sides of the block, weld some 4" channel from the bell housing to the front bumper ( it has an 8" C-channel bumper).
Bolting the front of this subframe to the bumper, and adding 2 anchor points to the FEL mid body supports, and welding the front assebly to the new subframe.
This way, the tractor can be "split" (if/when needed) and the new added metal would come off as part of the front assebly.

Has anyone seen or attempted anything like this?
I'm sure its not the first.
It should be much stronger than the orriginal design.
I'm also going to fully weld up the front "swing open" FEL frame, attaching the hood with pins so it has to be lifted out.
I'm not making a dozer, but it will be SOLID.
any guidance or suggestions before I start....?
Thank you.

 

[WinnieCouple]

Oh ya, it's been done before and you're right on track with how to repair/stiffen the tractor!

GREAT... do you know if anyone has taken any pictures of something like this?
I plan to do a detailed fix, with pics.

Who knows... maybe a company (or fabrication shop) might want to make something like this to sell as an aftermarket kit... ( i've looked and looked) seems like something that would sell.

 

[AKL1501DT]

Hi WC,

I am just beginning my search for others with this problem. I have a different tractor (L-1501DT / L-185DT) but am shocked at the fact that the entire front end is only bolted onto the engine block with about 5 poorly located bolts. The mating surface and distance between the bolts is only a few inches vertically so the stress is very high on the bolts.

I was trying to "engineer" a support structure like what I think you are considering. It was going to involve heavy bars and multiple attach points. The tricky part was that the stress on the front end wasn't in one direction. with a load in the bucket the force on the joint between the engine and sub frame was one way. When snow plowing with the bucket lifting the tractor, it was the other way.

What I decided to do was make a threaded bar for each side that applied a large clamping force to the 3 pieces. The engine block, the sub-frame, and the piece forward of the sub-frame that supports the FEL.

I welded attach points for the bars onto the front piece, and another for each bar to the FEL support structure near the center of the tractor, and bolted the 5/8" bars between the two (running fore and aft). I tried to angle the bars so that they ran "through" the mid point of the mating surface for the most strength.
I have only run this set up for a year or so, but the front end is much stronger.

I used to have to run it until the bolts snapped, then easy out and replace them, rinse and repeat once or twice per year.

Fingers crossed that won't happen anymore.

Hope this helps you on your way.

If there is something I am missing about how the front end attaches to the engine though, someone please let me know!


Greg

I have a L245DT with a FEL, and a few weeks back the front frame assembly snapped a corner off of the engine block at one of the mounting bolts. *using the FEL and NOT overworking it...
WELL... after getting her up on stands and and pulling the entire front end off. All I can say is it was a POOR DESIGN for the front end of a 4x4 tractor.
Yes, its only 25hp, but I'm sure its NOT the only tractor to have this problem.

It looks like its had 4 helicoils, and one stepped up/tapped out larger. So, its been a problem for this tractor.

So... buying and replacing the BLOCK is out of the question, it wouldnt cure the problem.
My intent is to fabricate a front subframe, bolt some plate to the sides of the block, weld some 4" channel from the bell housing to the front bumper ( it has an 8" C-channel bumper).
Bolting the front of this subframe to the bumper, and adding 2 anchor points to the FEL mid body supports, and welding the front assebly to the new subframe.
This way, the tractor can be "split" (if/when needed) and the new added metal would come off as part of the front assebly.

Has anyone seen or attempted anything like this?
I'm sure its not the first.
It should be much stronger than the orriginal design.
I'm also going to fully weld up the front "swing open" FEL frame, attaching the hood with pins so it has to be lifted out.
I'm not making a dozer, but it will be SOLID.
any guidance or suggestions before I start....?
Thank you.

 

[WinnieCouple]

Greg,
Hope all is well up in Alaska, I hear the weather is pretty nasty on the west coast up there. ( I lived in Fairbanks for 3 years, LOVED IT).

I sure would love to see a couple of pics of your set up.

My welder finished welding up my front pinion (snapped an inch off the end), so I'll be able to start putting her back together next week. Hopefully we can get my subframe started soon....

 

[fj40dave]

This sounds cool.....post some pictures as you make this beefier set-up please!

 

[BridgeMan]

Greg,
. . . .My welder finished welding up my front pinion (snapped an inch off the end), so . . . ....

So do all of you orange tractor guys have a welder working full-time for you? Must be nice.

I'm just a poor John Deere owner, and have to do all of my own welding with an AC-DC crackerbox. Sigh . . .

 

[DBCSteve]

So do all of you orange tractor guys have a welder working full-time for you? Must be nice.

I'm just a poor John Deere owner, and have to do all of my own welding with an AC-DC crackerbox. Sigh . . .

I've used both my AC - DC buzz box and wirefeed on various projects and repairs over the years on blue, orange and yellow tractors, plus various 3-point implements. Yellow = several JD dozers. If you use a tractor, there will always be welding opportunities.

 

[skeets]

Well Bridgeman I don't have a welder and I dont weld either and I d ont have anybody working for me so when I have something welded I have to make dayum sure I need it welded cause the money comes outa my pocket. Wish I did have a welder and knew how to weld,,,, nawww I can get into enough trouble with out one more excuse

 

[AKL1501DT]

Hi WC,

All is well in AK! Except for working on the Kubota in single digits.
Yeah, they got hit on the West coast with a big storm a week or so ago. I think it was weaker than they expected thank goodness.
Fairbanks is a cool town. Too dang cold! (and hot in the summer)

I will try to get some pics posted in the next several days of what I did. No laughing at my amateur welds.
Looking forward to seeing what your subframe looks like.

(I think what I've been calling a subframe is called something else. It's the factory pieces that bolt to the front of the engine, that the front end mounts too)

Happy tractoring,

Greg

Greg,
Hope all is well up in Alaska, I hear the weather is pretty nasty on the west coast up there. ( I lived in Fairbanks for 3 years, LOVED IT).

I sure would love to see a couple of pics of your set up.

My welder finished welding up my front pinion (snapped an inch off the end), so I'll be able to start putting her back together next week. Hopefully we can get my subframe started soon....

 

[AKL1501DT]

I thought all tractors came with welders???
Most of mine was done with a 110V wirefeed for a long time. Using 220v now, but I haven't gotten any better.

So do all of you orange tractor guys have a welder working full-time for you? Must be nice.

I'm just a poor John Deere owner, and have to do all of my own welding with an AC-DC crackerbox. Sigh . . .

 

[WinnieCouple]

I thought all tractors came with welders???
Most of mine was done with a 110V wirefeed for a long time. Using 220v now, but I haven't gotten any better.

I have one of the little 110v Harbor Freight wire welders, under 100$ it was a good deal, if you put it on high, wire feed max and stay in the same area for a bit, you can actually get a pretty good weld on some heavy stuff...

My welder is my uncle, lives a few houses down, has years of heavy welding experience and all the portable welding goodies....
He fixed my 600$+ front pinion, even ground the splines so the coupler slides on it nice and smooth. It may not be "perfect", but it looks like it will work.

As for the "subframe thing", I know what your saying... the front "assembly" (or support member), mine has to have some heating and a little pounding back in shape ( just a bit), and some stress cracks welded... but I/we are adding a subframe, from FEL support to front bumper, welded to the front assembly, and bolted for and aft. (so it could be split if needed). Just some good 4" C-channel... beef it up good. Will take pictures.

 

[MagKarl]

I'm anxious to see what your new subframe looks like. Do you also have the connecting arms that go to the rear axle?

 

[Ach]

Not sure whether you meant the rear axle when you said you'd be bolting aft, but running the frame all the way to the rear axle is wise. Heavy loads will distributed with some stress on the rear of the tractor, rather than the front end carrying the entire force.

Ballasting the rear with as much weight as you're loader lifts will make your tractor much happier under load as well.

-A

 

[WinnieCouple]

Not sure whether you meant the rear axle when you said you'd be bolting aft, but running the frame all the way to the rear axle is wise. Heavy loads will distributed with some stress on the rear of the tractor, rather than the front end carrying the entire force.

Ballasting the rear with as much weight as you're loader lifts will make your tractor much happier under load as well.

-A

Plans are to have the subframe made with bolting points (high and low) on the main FEL support, by welding some "tabs" with bolt holes to the FEL vertical support, it shouldnt weaken the support as it would by drilling more holes. The FEL has support from the bell housing to mid tranny but not all the way back.
A solid "H" frame welded to the factory front assembly, yet removable...
Beefing up the front assembly mounting point at the block is the focus, I mount a weighted box blade most of the time for ballast while clearing brush.

 

[MagKarl]

I think you have a problem if your loader subframe does not connect back to the rear axle. There should be arms connecting from the mid mount rearward to the axle to carry the load to the rear and lift the whole tractor instead of bending it in the middle. Beefing up the front alone is not the right solution in my opinion. I say this because I have the same model tractor but your subframe does not sound the same as mine. I think you are missing some very important parts. Please post some pics of what you have and what you want to do. I'll try to find some pics of mine but they are on my wife's computer and that won't be easy.

 

[WinnieCouple]

I think you have a problem if your loader subframe does not connect back to the rear axle. There should be arms connecting from the mid mount rearward to the axle to carry the load to the rear and lift the whole tractor instead of bending it in the middle. Beefing up the front alone is not the right solution in my opinion. I say this because I have the same model tractor but your subframe does not sound the same as mine. I think you are missing some very important parts. Please post some pics of what you have and what you want to do. I'll try to find some pics of mine but they are on my wife's computer and that won't be easy.

I hear what your saying, and may well add some support to the rear as well. I'll see if i can get some pictures this weekend.

 

[Ach]

Since a tractor is essentially an engine bolted to a transmission, not including the transmission half in the subframe workings transfers the stress from your engine block onto the engine/transmission connection point. Worst case scenario results in the tractor snapping in half, likely just past the bell housing. No bueno.

Here's a shot from the side.You can see the front area attachments and see the frame running to the rear of the tractor. I'll try to get a pic up of the rear attachment point later today.

 

[WinnieCouple]

Since a tractor is essentially an engine bolted to a transmission, not including the transmission half in the subframe workings transfers the stress from your engine block onto the engine/transmission connection point. Worst case scenario results in the tractor snapping in half, likely just past the bell housing. No bueno.

Here's a shot from the side.You can see the front area attachments and see the frame running to the rear of the tractor. I'll try to get a pic up of the rear attachment point later today.

Right ON Ach...
Is that a kit/subframe or was that custom built?
If your able to get some close ups (whenever your able) that would be AWESOME...!!!

 

[Ach]

Terrible quality image but hopefully you get the idea. The subframe arm goes from the front attachment point until it hits the rear axle housing. Where it terminates it is welded to a crescent shaped plate that gets bolted onto the axle housing by three of the axle bolts.

The other picture is a shot of the side attachment, where the loader is connected to the transmission casing.

This post has a much better picture of the frame actually:

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5711&highlight=plow+frame

Check the third picture on Wisc6000s first post.

Best of luck!

 

[WinnieCouple]

Thanks again Ach,
Gives me even better ideas for my build...!!!