Hard to impossible to start glow plugs test good

[Stumpy]

The I&T service manual is a very good buy. A good price for the information contained within. Like most Chilton's manuals it can be a little sparse but it's still quite good.

The spec for your machine is 0.006-0.008 inchs. I hadn't noticed before but the spec for the exhaust and intake valves are the same for my engine and yours. Not sure what's up with that, usually the exhaust is set looser than the intake due to thermal expansion. Regardless get a set of feeler gauges and set them at that spec and you should be fine.

 

[teddyanddebi]

The I&T service manual is a very good buy. A good price for the information contained within. Like most Chilton's manuals it can be a little sparse but it's still quite good.

The spec for your machine is 0.006-0.008 inchs. I hadn't noticed before but the spec for the exhaust and intake valves are the same for my engine and yours. Not sure what's up with that, usually the exhaust is set looser than the intake due to thermal expansion. Regardless get a set of feeler gauges and set them at that spec and you should be fine.

Thank you Matt for your help. I went and had the batterie checked and it was good. It has only 475CCW. I measured the battery box and it is 9X5" I couldn't find a larger CCW battery that would fit that space. I guess i'm going to try and getting the space larger. Any suggestions on where to buy a battery to fit with at least 750-1000CCW? Also where can I get a I&T manual? I tried all around here in this small town. ALso without the book I will probably need a valve cover gasket? I watched the videos on bleeding the fuel but couldnt find one on adjusting the valves. Wether they are adjusted on compression or exhaust stroke. I'm banking the intakes are on compression and exhaust when the are in exhaust position. I noticed on line the I&T shop manuals available are the K201 and some L series tractors. Is the b7100 close enough to the L series and K201 to order this book. Th others are for 160.000 plus.

Thank you again for your advice and info and for the taking the time out to help someone.
Ted Snyder Tx

 

[teddyanddebi]

Thank you Matt for your help. I went and had the batterie checked and it was good. It has only 475CCW. I measured the battery box and it is 9X5" I couldn't find a larger CCW battery that would fit that space. I guess i'm going to try and getting the space larger. Any suggestions on where to buy a battery to fit with at least 750-1000CCW? Also where can I get a I&T manual? I tried all around here in this small town. ALso without the book I will probably need a valve cover gasket? I watched the videos on bleeding the fuel but couldnt find one on adjusting the valves. Wether they are adjusted on compression or exhaust stroke. I'm banking the intakes are on compression and exhaust when the are in exhaust position. I noticed on line the I&T shop manuals available are the K201 and some L series tractors. Is the b7100 close enough to the L series and K201 to order this book. Th others are for 160.000 plus.

Thank you again for your advice and info and for the taking the time out to help someone.
Ted Snyder Tx

I'm sorry to add this but I was checking on the glow plugs at O'Riely's and they carry 2 types , autolight or Bosch what's everyones thoughts on them, or is there something out there better? I saw somewhere that Diesel RX was the best but I like to hear from others.
Thanks again

 

[Russell King]

Also where can I get a I&T manual? I tried all around here in this small town.

I think that Tractor Supply carries them in their stores around here. The manual usually covers several similar tractors.

 

[Stumpy]

I don't have an opinion on the glow plug brands.

I'd just order it from Amazon myself but Russell is right, if any place is going to stock them TS will. I&T only ever made the one manual for Kubotas and it covers your machine, it's down in the description on the Amazon link.

Shouldn't be hard to get a larger capacity battery that's the same size. Autoparts stores or a battery company would I be where I'd look. I lean towards Interstate batteries myself but as long as it hasn't been sitting on a shelf full of acid for a few years I wouldn't be picky.

What stroke you're on doesn't matter as much as that the valve you're adjusting is on the dwell point of it's cam. Compression stroke is just easier since both valves for the cylinder are on dwell at the same time. Watch the valve as you rotate the motor (make sure the fuel nuts are loose!) and if it hasn't moved in a quarter revolution you're fine. Loosen the nut, slide in the feeler gauge, tighten the screw til you can feel light to moderate drag on the feeler as you slide it, and then tighten the nut while holding the screw. Recheck with the gauge again and adjust til you're satisfied. A little looser is better than too tight if you're unsure.

 

[teddyanddebi]

I don't have an opinion on the glow plug brands.

I'd just order it from Amazon myself but Russell is right, if any place is going to stock them TS will. I&T only ever made the one manual for Kubotas and it covers your machine, it's down in the description on the Amazon link.

Shouldn't be hard to get a larger capacity battery that's the same size. Autoparts stores or a battery company would I be where I'd look. I lean towards Interstate batteries myself but as long as it hasn't been sitting on a shelf full of acid for a few years I wouldn't be picky.

What stroke you're on doesn't matter as much as that the valve you're adjusting is on the dwell point of it's cam. Compression stroke is just easier since both valves for the cylinder are on dwell at the same time. Watch the valve as you rotate the motor (make sure the fuel nuts are loose!) and if it hasn't moved in a quarter revolution you're fine. Loosen the nut, slide in the feeler gauge, tighten the screw til you can feel light to moderate drag on the feeler as you slide it, and then tighten the nut while holding the screw. Recheck with the gauge again and adjust til you're satisfied. A little looser is better than too tight if you're unsure.

I appreciate your advice and experience. Today I adjusted the valves. 2 of the intakes were a little tight and the rest were pretty much loose. After which I tried in vain to start it. I pulled a glow plug (NGK Y103) and it is black, very black. Must be carbon. Usually not a good sign on an automobile. So I might just replace them. As for a compression tester, not around here. I went to tractor supply and of course they dont have the book I need. I will end up in Abilene ( 160 mile round trip) and check to see if I can find one there. As for the battery. TSC doesn't have any that will fit the space it belongs in. I have a 9X5 inch space for the battery, unless someone has modified it. I wish I had the book to tell me the specs on it. It's a D750A engine and I think they would be pretty much standard. What's your thought on the glow plug situation? I also looked in the fuel tank and it looks pretty clean. One last question, I removed the air cleaner and there is soething that resembles fan blades on the end of the filter. Do the replacement filters come with fan looking attachment or am I supposed to somehow remove it?
Thanks Ted

 

[DanDan]

I pulled a glow plug (NGK Y103) and it is black, very black. Must be carbon. Usually not a good sign on an automobile.

I'd agree if you were talking about an automobile spark plug, but I can't say that black deposits on a diesel glow plug necessarily means its fouled; it's pretty hazardous duty in there for the little guys, a little carbon buildup is probably par for the course. I think that Russell's (and others') observation is important:

Since it won't start after running for that period of time, I do not think it is the glow plugs.

I'm not saying I know what the issue is, but I'd personally bump the glow plugs down on the list (which is too bad, it would have been an easy fix). Wouldn't hurt to swap them if you have already bought them though...

So does the thing NOT start at all now, after adjusting the valves?

 

[James Williams]

My B7100 had a size 56 battery on it when I bought it, but it is just a little to big for the space. I checked on the internet for battery sizes and it looks like a size 51 should be right. I think that any reasonably sized car battery should be able to start a B7100 if it is fully charged.

I start mine with the speed control lever pretty much straight up and down. Not at idle, but not too fast either and use the glow plugs for 15 to 30 seconds or so before trying to start it.

James

 

[teddyanddebi]

The I&T service manual is a very good buy. A good price for the information contained within. Like most Chilton's manuals it can be a little sparse but it's still quite good.

The spec for your machine is 0.006-0.008 inchs. I hadn't noticed before but the spec for the exhaust and intake valves are the same for my engine and yours. Not sure what's up with that, usually the exhaust is set looser than the intake due to thermal expansion. Regardless get a set of feeler gauges and set them at that spec and you should be fine.

checked with all the tractor supply stores within 100 miles and no kubota IT books. The one manager informed me kubota made TSC remove all the k (kubota) series books. any suggestions on where to get them?

 

[teddyanddebi]

i decided to research on the internet and ordered the IT and parts manuals. I got them both for a total of 46.00 i hate to wait for things

 

[teddyanddebi]

i want to thank everyone who taught this old guy about diesels. I have found a compression tester at harbor frieght, parts at the dealer, knowledge from you folks. I have learned that even with a copression problem once the tractor starts it could smooth. I learned about glow plugs and how well built kubotas are built. Thanks again Ted

 

[Russell King]

So is it starting and running now?

 

[teddyanddebi]

So is it starting and running now?

Well t's the same still. I have to use jumper cables to my suburban and it takes a good 30 seconds to crank enough to start. I clled everywhere here in this town for a diesel compression tester. I had some say yes we have it only to find out they were talking about a gas engine. Some didnt know the difference. I went to Lubbock today and asked at the dealer they referred me to napa who referred me to Texas tools who then referred me to some marine supplies which sent me to a diesel systems shop. Which they have one for there on use. But in talking with him he told me harbor frieght sells them. Went there and yes 2 types. One for 30 and another for 180.00 dollars. The dealer while I was there informed me that a compression test was in order(like everyone said). I asked can it have a compression leak and run so smooth when started? he informed me he watched some folks pull start a tractor for 5 miles but when it tarted it was smooth. It runs but has to be cranked for a long time. He also said the ohmmeter check is a so/so test for glow plugs and the best is to remove them and bridge across the battery and it should glow within 2-3 seconds. If it doesnt it's shorted. He said the same thing everyone else did and told me in 95 dgree heat it shouldnt need a glow plug to preheat.
Anyway thanks for the info and when I get the compression tests don I will let you folks know the outcome. If its the rings I have a good fix.
Thanks again
Ted

 

[birddogger]

Did you disconnect the glow-plug jumpers and check each one individually? The B7200 had 1 bad glow plug and after replacing it it started like a new tractor. It also had the glow-indicator start working "normally."
Pull the battery and take somewhere that will check its' cranking amps.
Clean and make tight and bright all 4 ends of the 2 battery cables. On that age of machine look closely at the cables near the clamps, any bulging of the sheathing may indicate internal corrosion, making a #6 wire a #12.

 

[teddyanddebi]

Did you disconnect the glow-plug jumpers and check each one individually? The B7200 had 1 bad glow plug and after replacing it it started like a new tractor. It also had the glow-indicator start working "normally."
Pull the battery and take somewhere that will check its' cranking amps.
Clean and make tight and bright all 4 ends of the 2 battery cables. On that age of machine look closely at the cables near the clamps, any bulging of the sheathing may indicate internal corrosion, making a #6 wire a #12.

I first had tested the glow plug with the ohmmeter and they were til all hooked up. But yesterday I removed them and tested them with the battery. They took about 30-45 seconds to glow good. I was going to do a compression test but I have both the short and long adapters, but the exhaust manifold is in the way. I did check all the cables and wiring and had the battry tested at O'rielly's. It was good. SO I did a little thing I was taught some years back. I used knocker loose and sprayed it generously into each cylinder. If there is a sticky ring it will unstick it. Now for the harder part. Has anyone ever had to remove the exhaust manifold to do a compression test? I can do it, but I'm not sure if the fuel pump is in the way of one of the bolts. The WSW doesnt show removing it. To answer another question yes I did clean all the connections on the battery. Whe I tested the plugs I did one with the cable and used the glow plug preheat switch to test the switch and it did allright. Thats where i'm at now. I did go back and loosen some of the valve adjustment and will probably have to readjust them again because they may be a little to loose.
Again I appreciate the time everyone has contributed to me and my problems and I thank God there are still folks willing to help others.
Ted

 

[hodge]

Again I appreciate the time everyone has contributed to me and my problems and I thank God there are still folks willing to help others.
Ted




OTT has good folks around. Some of the best, and I am thankful for OTT, because otherwise, I wouldn't have the chance to get to know them.

 

[teddyanddebi]

Again I appreciate the time everyone has contributed to me and my problems and I thank God there are still folks willing to help others.
Ted




OTT has good folks around. Some of the best, and I am thankful for OTT, because otherwise, I wouldn't have the chance to get to know them.

Well folks everyone was right on track and here goes with my compression readings, front to back (meaning radiator, which I would imagine to be cyl1), first reading is dry 2nd is wet:220-260: 300-320: 260-280. Not much of a change but then again the oil was extremely thin. I will try again after the wind lets up in a couple of days. Things I learned: 1. disassembly, air cleaner, side cover, injector tubes, intake manifold, glow plugs. assemble in reverse. 2. turn the darn petcock valve off before anything else. This will save you from getting diesel out the pump when compression testing,(my mistake)3. If you don't assemble in this order, it makes it a whole lot harder to get the last bolt in the manifold and the middle glow plug is a son of a gun to get back in. 3. get a cheater pipe if you only have a open end wrench. Well I put everything back because we are expecting 45mph winds tomorrow and I don't need sand in every opening. Thanks for the help and if i'm right, it has to be valves or guides, Correct?
Ted

 

[Stumpy]

No it could still be the rings.

That's about what I expected. It's low but still high enough that it can still run and produce reasonable power once it's warm but starting will be difficult. Now that you know you've got low compression you've got a choice. You can preform a leak test or just pull off the head since you're going to have to do that either way.

I you want to do a leak down test you'll have to identify the thread on the hose (take it into a hardware store) and get an air compressor fitting that fits. The idea is that you rotate the engine to TDC and then pressurize the cylinder. If it's exactly at TDC the engine won't rotate and you'll be able to listen to where the air is escaping from the cylinder. If it's loudest in the crankcase, it's the rings, the exhaust port, the exhaust valve, you get the idea. That's the version of the leak down test I'm familiar with.

Plan B(or A) is you remove the head and examine the cylinder walls, pistons, valves, and valve seats for unusual signs. The engine may have experienced an overheat. These tractors use thermosyphon cooling systems that can be finicky and without a cooling gauge there are more than a few that have overheated without the operator knowing. On mine the exhaust valve guides overheat and ended up loose in the head. The tractor seemed to start hard but the red flag was a bunch of deposits, like wet coffee grounds, in the exhaust port. The result of oil leaking out of the valve guide. The pistons showed heavy scoring and one of the cylinder liners shifted in block. Keep an eye out for anything similar.