Now that I have the tie bar and the bevel gear case off, I have a couple of problems I was hoping someone could help me with. The drain plug (allen wrench) on the bottom is stripped out - really not impressed with whoever worked on this machine before! An "easy out" is not working to remove it - any hints? Also, when you remove the bevel cover on the bottom the bearing and the gear are pressed into it and I do not know how to separate them. Any helpful hints would be greatly appreciated.
F3680 Bevel Gear Case
- Thread starter THurston63
- Start date
There is an excellent product to remove stripped socket head screws made by IRWIN HANSON.
https://www.jccayer.com/Irwin-53207-516-Hex-Head-Multi-Spline-Extrac/p/13753
http://www.irwin.com/tools/screw-bo...screw-extractors-532-series-plastic-case-sets
In some places they are described as Irwin Hanson multi spline and in other places the Hanson name is dropped.
You can buy them individually in some shops and others only in kit form.
Walmart.com was selling them.
The individual ones are less than $8.
You drill the stripped socket to a specified size, insert the tool into the drilled hole and turn it in the direction to unscrew the socket head screw which causes the spirals to dig into the stripped socket and if all is well out it comes.
The other alternative when everything is not workikng is to go to a welder who uses a TIG, not mig welder.
Have him place a nut over the stripped socket and weld the inside of the nut unto the top of the socket. The heat of the welding will free any rust and the welded on nut gives you a secure place to put a wrench on to unscrew the socket.
Once it is out do yourself a big favor and buy a high quality set of Allen wrenches. Using cheap Allen wrenches creates most of these problems
Dave M7040
https://www.jccayer.com/Irwin-53207-516-Hex-Head-Multi-Spline-Extrac/p/13753
http://www.irwin.com/tools/screw-bo...screw-extractors-532-series-plastic-case-sets
In some places they are described as Irwin Hanson multi spline and in other places the Hanson name is dropped.
You can buy them individually in some shops and others only in kit form.
Walmart.com was selling them.
The individual ones are less than $8.
You drill the stripped socket to a specified size, insert the tool into the drilled hole and turn it in the direction to unscrew the socket head screw which causes the spirals to dig into the stripped socket and if all is well out it comes.
The other alternative when everything is not workikng is to go to a welder who uses a TIG, not mig welder.
Have him place a nut over the stripped socket and weld the inside of the nut unto the top of the socket. The heat of the welding will free any rust and the welded on nut gives you a secure place to put a wrench on to unscrew the socket.
Once it is out do yourself a big favor and buy a high quality set of Allen wrenches. Using cheap Allen wrenches creates most of these problems
Dave M7040
Thurston63
Please let me know how they work for you. I don't want to be recommending them to others if the success rate is low.
Dave
Dave -
I ordered the IRWIN Hanson Multi Spline Est set right off Amazon. It was about $30 for a full set (more than I will probably ever need, but you never know). I got them yesterday and they work like CHAMPS on the stripped allen screws. As long as you follow the guidelines (drill bit size and extractor size, etc) this is one great piece of gear. Thanks for turning me to them! I will say this, there is nothing wrong with my allen wrenches - the drain plugs are crap. I would replace these hex plugs with a regular bolt if I could find one short enough to fit with the same threads - I am going to look. Even though mine were stripped when I first tried to remove them, the location of these drain plugs (close to the ground on the rear wheel is extremely susceptible to moisture and anything else that can and will freeze up a bolt. The world's greatest allen wrench is no match for a stuck plug made out of a weak (soft) metal. Poor choice of metal and design by the orange engineers. But these extractors worked great. I had already broke a couple of other cheaper extractors trying to get them out.
JKmetcalf -
I did not have the foresight to take pictures before, but I am waiting for new parts. Is there something specific that you are looking for a picture of? I took it off because it appeared that something within the gearbox had collapsed. the LH bevel gear case was grinding on the LH rear axle case. it was not holding any oil. upon removal and disassembly I found two of the bearings destroyed and one that was badly damaged. Not sure what caused it, but I guess I just write it up to the previous owner's lack of maintenance that I did not catch when I bought the machine because it would not be right to blame myself! I have absolutely no idea how it got this way, but there are supposed to be two oil seals in this fixture and I could find no evidence that they were ever in there. So the bottom line is I have no idea how or when it got this way, I am just going to put it back together the way the parts manual has t depicted and hope for the best.
I ordered the IRWIN Hanson Multi Spline Est set right off Amazon. It was about $30 for a full set (more than I will probably ever need, but you never know). I got them yesterday and they work like CHAMPS on the stripped allen screws. As long as you follow the guidelines (drill bit size and extractor size, etc) this is one great piece of gear. Thanks for turning me to them! I will say this, there is nothing wrong with my allen wrenches - the drain plugs are crap. I would replace these hex plugs with a regular bolt if I could find one short enough to fit with the same threads - I am going to look. Even though mine were stripped when I first tried to remove them, the location of these drain plugs (close to the ground on the rear wheel is extremely susceptible to moisture and anything else that can and will freeze up a bolt. The world's greatest allen wrench is no match for a stuck plug made out of a weak (soft) metal. Poor choice of metal and design by the orange engineers. But these extractors worked great. I had already broke a couple of other cheaper extractors trying to get them out.
JKmetcalf -
I did not have the foresight to take pictures before, but I am waiting for new parts. Is there something specific that you are looking for a picture of? I took it off because it appeared that something within the gearbox had collapsed. the LH bevel gear case was grinding on the LH rear axle case. it was not holding any oil. upon removal and disassembly I found two of the bearings destroyed and one that was badly damaged. Not sure what caused it, but I guess I just write it up to the previous owner's lack of maintenance that I did not catch when I bought the machine because it would not be right to blame myself! I have absolutely no idea how it got this way, but there are supposed to be two oil seals in this fixture and I could find no evidence that they were ever in there. So the bottom line is I have no idea how or when it got this way, I am just going to put it back together the way the parts manual has t depicted and hope for the best.
I am now trying to make sure that I am ready to put the case back together when the parts get here, I was hoping someone could provide me some insight on the gasket sealer/liquid gasket and the liquid lock that they recommend in the maintenance manual. The easiest/cheapest place to acquire and any possible substitutes. The manual calls for Three Bond 1208D (did not even see this on the Three Bond web site) and Three Bond 1324. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry, when I read "bevel gear case," I thought you meant a mower deck bevel gear case. Although I'm probably not one of them, several guys on here that can give good advice, especially if you provide pictures. Sounds like you've got it under control, though. Good luck!
Why TIG
Trying to remove things like cross head screws in my ATV's front master cylinder which is aluminum. The screws are steel and because of the dissimilar metal galvanic action, literally attach their threads to the Aluminum master cylinder/reservoir. The screw heads are easily stripped even it you use a hand impact driver. If you try and warm things up with an Oxy Acet torch the aluminum reservoir can suddenly turn to a blob of liquid on the floor. The aluminum, unlike steel which turns different shades of red as it heats, provides little clue to the inexperienced how close you are to disaster.
To effect the "weld the nut on top of the flush screw head," you need to have great control over where the arc starts or you can end up just welding the nut's threaded hole closed and have little connection to the stripped screw.
TIG has the ability to be very precisely controlled. Its fine tugsten electrode is not encumbered by a migs outer nozzle. A 10-32 nut, which has a small thread hole in its center, can be securely attached to the stripped screw.
I am not a welding expert!. I just have one go to guy who has saved my bacon many times with this technique using a TIG.
Dave M7040
Thurston
Loctite 518 available on Amazon.com for about $15 has worked greaat for me on many different sealing applications when flanges are involved.
https://www.amazon.com/Gasket-Maker...F8&qid=1486420604&sr=1-2&keywords=loctite+518
Industrial bearing and hydraulic shops may carry it.
Read the on line instructions carefully as the flanges need to not have any oily film on them.
It is highly resistant to oils and similar. It is an anaerobic cure which means in the absence of oxygen so the part between the two flanges cures while and stuff that squeezes out can be cleaned up with water once the curing is over.
For securing nuts and bolts get Blue Loctite thread locker.
Blue Thread Locker 37643 is their medium strength locker that comes in a wax like stick so it is not running off and getting on everything.
https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-3764...266&sr=1-2&keywords=loctite+blue+threadlocker
The more common Blue Loctite 242 is available at even Home Depot and is perfectly adequate just not as easy to apply as the stick product.
https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-3741...422&sr=1-1&keywords=loctite+blue+threadlocker
Dave M7040
Greatly appreciate your feedback on the stripped socket extractors.
I think if you look in the bottom of the threaded hole that the socket head set screws came out of you may find a tapered outer area that the tapered end of the socket head screw seals to. A bolt, even if it threads in, is not going to have the tapered face and will damage the existing face plus leak.
My request for photos has to do with understanding which version of the RAD blower design you have as there have been improvements you might be able to avail yourself of now that the snowblower is apart.
The big item is the part in black which is something a dealer provided an owner who was experiencing multiple shear bolt failures. The latest RAD design incorporates this feature except now the black part comes from the manufacturing plant orange.
It seems all web photo hosting sites are overloaded and I cannot post a photo to help explain what I mean about design changes
Dave M7040
Dave - Thanks so much for your insight. I guess I have no more questions until the parts come in and I can get back to work.
The fan area with the black flange like part, was the dealer upgrade to help a forum member deal with repeated shear bolt failures. The fan must have been replaced with the newest model although I think any good machine shop could alter what you likely have. The all orange image is the older design with the shear bolt through the fan hub and shaft.
Dave M7040
Dave M7040
Substituting a bolt for a socket screw can be a big problem when the socket head screws job is to seal a hole and not just hold a key and pulley in place.
The following is from the owner's description of why the socket head is on his gearbox: " The drain plug (allen wrench) on the bottom."
The socket screw is just to seal a hole.
The socket head usually has a tapered end designed to seal in the bottom of the hole in the worm gear box.
Compare the tapered end to a typical bolt and even worse a bolt you cut to shorten it.
The gear case is aluminum if memory serves me well and would be easily damaged with a bolt. Sure you can try and seal the threads so the gear box does not leak but that is not how it was designed. The end of the socket screw is not coming up against a metal part but an aluminum seat so the screw does not screw all the way into the box.
Dave M7040