convert HST to manual?

[dem45133]

Hello all.

Curiosity...

I have a B6100 4x4 HST with a weak hydro... slips when warm. But since its missing any kind of a neutral lock/speed control, it also is an accident waiting to happen if I repair this hydro. If one needs to get off to do whatever... one is not interested in having to shut down... although much of the new stuff is that way I know. On these hydro's if the clutch is engaged the hydro is fully functional. I'm old school and really not interested in having to shut down to be safe. I just want to place it in neutral and set the brake.

So in order to make use of this otherwise good running unit... I'd like to inquiry on the possibility of converting to the 8 spd manual (4/2 or whatever gears they had). Is this do able with just locating the trans unit, or does one have to change out the whole rear end assembly too? Is the clutch the same (probubly since the PTO goes through it) Its highly probable the rear end unit is not changed. Rear end is fine... just need to keep power being delivered to it. Since I have to split it anyway... I'd like to know about converting.

If it is doable... where would one suggest finding a manual trans unit and any related necessary parts?

All advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

Dave.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

I am no expert in this area by any means but sounds to me like your about to open a whole can of worms you really dont want to get into. Your going from a hydrulic power souce to a gear power source and seems to me it would be more of a headache then its really worth trying to convert it over.

 

[dem45133]

Thanks... and I understand your point... and under other designs your probably right.

But here's what I've noticed:

- the hydro unit is a "bolt on" to the rear end... it simply drives a pinion via its output shaft.
- the hydro unit itself is shaft driven from the engine and flows through a manual clutch that also drives the PTO (so the clutch has to be reasonably stout, and likely the same part either way). Therefore the idea that the hydro unit is simply a bolt in arrangement. Pull the hydro unit out...install the 4 speed in its place. The foot controls for the hydro would just be removed all together and there is no hand control on this machine anyway.

If I were designing... I'd want to minimize the number of unique parts and castings I could... thus share the rear end, clutch, input shaft, 4x4 output shaft, frame attach points etc. Would all be a like. If the only part that may change is shafts and they are a simple design... I might be able to turn/mill new ones although hardening will be an issue. Hopefully I can get the shafting with a 4 sp manual trans as well from the bone yard.

That's what I really inquiring about. Maybe it can't be done... but had to ask.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[cmorningstar01]

I just want to place it in neutral and set the brake.

Is there a neutral in between the high and low range on the transmission, If so then simply pop in neutral and set the parking brake.

 

[dem45133]

You know... never really looked there for a neutral gate... don't really think it has detented one... but it may not need to be held there hard and fast. I'll check that if I do just repair/replace this hydro unit.

 

[hodge]

It should have a neutral position on the high/low lever.
My guess would be that Kubota did design the tractor in a manner that the trans is a unique unit between a common front unit and rear end, but I would be surprised if there weren't some issues to work through to convert it. That being said, because they made both (gear drive and hydro), I imagine that it would just be a matter of finding the unique parts to complete the trade. I would think that you can do it- probably finding a donor tractor with a bad engine would probably be the best route. I don't have the info, but I know some folks on here know where some Kubota graveyards are.
It may be cheaper and easier to fix your hydro issues, though.

 

[dem45133]

Humm... with as many old HSTs getting tired... I would have thought this a little more common solution than maybe it is.

Just gulls me that I paid 2551 (plus 200 to deliver) on ebay for a tractor, that in the cool of the fall of 09 the hydro works just fine when my wife went and test drove it never letting come to temp. I talked to the man and explained that I could not be there and to treat her as if it were his wife that was going to need to mow. I listened to it on the phone... its a good runner, which is all I could do as to keep our mortgage paid I had to work 1500 miles away. When he delivered it I had a local shop pick it up to have all its systems gone through... you know fuel, fluids, grease, glow plugs, etc. after $400 and a test run with mowing... we discover the weak hydro. So now I have $3100 in it.

Took it in to a Kuboto dealer for presure tests... another $230, up to $3400 in it. Oh yea, I also have 250 into a parts deck... but its not the same. They say it needs a new $1385 hydro plus another 1000 or so to install it. That would make better that 5K into it... NOT going to happen.

To top it all off... the deck has enough hours on it to totally round the V's on the pulleys... it takes a zillion hours to do that. AND then it sat long enough to severely pit the frictions surfaces to boot. I doubt a belt would last two hours in that state. So I'll have to put another 300 or 400 at least into the deck... more if I have to go into the gearbox...

BUT thats not the end off it.... Upon a full inspection when I did get home, several small things that that my wife would not know to spot (but the SOB who showed it to her sure F'n knew!, now I see are missing... I think the engine is off one unit, the hydro and rear off another... and its not getting fed torque from the gear set in the trans for some reason (shaft and front unit is working as it should... )... another thing... and at least the fenders are from something that was never bolted to the top trans/rear brackets... there has never been a bolt in there. Who knows where the deck came from. Center trans cover sheetmetal is gone, as is the top hand control for the hydro too.

Oh and there is enough slop in the hex clamps on the rear axles that both tires tend to flop around...

Sorry SOB USED my wife, sold her and me a bill of goods KNOWING FULL WELL I COULD NOT BE THERE!!!!@!!! KNOWING FULL WELL IT WAS A CONGLOMERATE. Never again sight unseen!

AND one wonders why I don't much trust anything anymore! Doing all this KNOWINGLY to someone is nothing but a *&&^%$ thief! I can’t afford to waste this kind of money!

Still trying to find solution that doesn’t kill the bank for a 30 some year old tractor.... hell, none of the serial numbers plates are there either!!!! Irritates me no end every time I think about it!

 

[asbug]

I'm thinking that a B7100 / b7001 with a bad engine is the way to go.
I do not know, but I think that a B6100 / B6001 is the same tractor with just a 2 cyl.
Soooo you might ask someone a little more experienced (SDVic) if the aforementioned is true.
Take care and good luck.
KC

 

[truszip]

Sounds similar as to what happened to me. I bought a F2560 late last year that was supposedly in excellent condition. I tested it at the time and it worked great. When I got it home and put it to some real work - once it got good and hot it didn't want to go. I have a couple of slight-ish inclines on my property and it didn't want to go up them, instead a pronounced groaning coming from the transmission.
I checked the screen and found some metal bits - so I took the HST apart and found a couple of broken bearing, worn clutch disc's just to name a few.
I replaced all the parts, and it worked but only for a very short time, as this year it started not working again. Same thing - didn't want to move up inclines once it was good and warmed up. So I replaced the hydraulic pump thinking that's what it was. It wasn't - so I took it apart again, more broken parts. Some of which were the new parts I had just put in.
I paid 5 grand for this thing and have at least another grand or so into it, let along the numerous hours and heart ache it has caused. A new HST for this money pit is like 3 grand so I too am looking around for an alternative, either a parts mower with a newer style HST or a manual transplant - either that or I'll scrap the thing and go John Deere.
When I bought this thing I was so excited, no more hours upon hours of cutting grass with my little 46" mower! Well it hasn't quite work out that way for me.

Sorry for the long rant. Good post - thanks.

 

[mattbatson]

Humm... with as many old HSTs getting tired... I would have thought this a little more common solution than maybe it is.

Just gulls me that I paid 2551 (plus 200 to deliver) on ebay for a tractor, that in the cool of the fall of 09 the hydro works just fine when my wife went and test drove it never letting come to temp. I talked to the man and explained that I could not be there and to treat her as if it were his wife that was going to need to mow. I listened to it on the phone... its a good runner, which is all I could do as to keep our mortgage paid I had to work 1500 miles away. When he delivered it I had a local shop pick it up to have all its systems gone through... you know fuel, fluids, grease, glow plugs, etc. after $400 and a test run with mowing... we discover the weak hydro. So now I have $3100 in it.

Took it in to a Kuboto dealer for presure tests... another $230, up to $3400 in it. Oh yea, I also have 250 into a parts deck... but its not the same. They say it needs a new $1385 hydro plus another 1000 or so to install it. That would make better that 5K into it... NOT going to happen.

To top it all off... the deck has enough hours on it to totally round the V's on the pulleys... it takes a zillion hours to do that. AND then it sat long enough to severely pit the frictions surfaces to boot. I doubt a belt would last two hours in that state. So I'll have to put another 300 or 400 at least into the deck... more if I have to go into the gearbox...

BUT thats not the end off it.... Upon a full inspection when I did get home, several small things that that my wife would not know to spot (but the SOB who showed it to her sure F'n knew!, now I see are missing... I think the engine is off one unit, the hydro and rear off another... and its not getting fed torque from the gear set in the trans for some reason (shaft and front unit is working as it should... )... another thing... and at least the fenders are from something that was never bolted to the top trans/rear brackets... there has never been a bolt in there. Who knows where the deck came from. Center trans cover sheetmetal is gone, as is the top hand control for the hydro too.

Oh and there is enough slop in the hex clamps on the rear axles that both tires tend to flop around...

Sorry SOB USED my wife, sold her and me a bill of goods KNOWING FULL WELL I COULD NOT BE THERE!!!!@!!! KNOWING FULL WELL IT WAS A CONGLOMERATE. Never again sight unseen!

AND one wonders why I don't much trust anything anymore! Doing all this KNOWINGLY to someone is nothing but a *&&^%$ thief! I can’t afford to waste this kind of money!

Still trying to find solution that doesn’t kill the bank for a 30 some year old tractor.... hell, none of the serial numbers plates are there either!!!! Irritates me no end every time I think about it!

sorry to dig up an old post, but i thought after reading this that maybe there should be a sticky on here of dealers to avoid?
I bet the list would get big pretty quick, and it would really help out new buyers on here.
I second this gentlemens statement that he will never buy sight unseen again, as that is what I did with my tractor. And after running it a bit it turns out to have some rather major damage .
Also, when looking at a potential purchase, that getting it up to operating temperature and "working" it, as much as possible anyways, is absolutely necessary, especially when dealing with an HST transmission?

 

[eserv]

Dealers have considerable experience with less than truthful customers too. In fact it sometimes surprises me that some customers have the balls to come back and ask for service!