Bypass start relay

[Firefighterontheside]

My tractor will not start and I suspect the start relay after some searching. Can it be safely bypassed to confirm and to use for a while. I really need to plow my road. I have an L4200 GST

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Set the brake, make 100% sure it's in neutral.
turn key to run, go down to the starter and jump from the large terminal to the small spade terminal.
It should crank and start.
Just turn off like normal.

Have you checked all the safety switches, PTO, Treadle pedal (hst), clutch pedal (dt), and on some models the brake or seat switch.

 

[Firefighterontheside]

Set the brake, make 100% sure it's in neutral.
turn key to run, go down to the starter and jump from the large terminal to the small spade terminal.
It should crank and start.
Just turn off like normal.

Have you checked all the safety switches, PTO, Treadle pedal (hst), clutch pedal (dt), and on some models the brake or seat switch.

my seat safety has never worked. I have always been able to start it from standing next to it. I bought it like that. I did not check the pto, but I will. When I turn the key, sometimes the dash will light up and sometimes not. When it lights, the relay starts buzzing. I turn to start and nothing happens, except buzzing stops.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

my seat safety has never worked. I have always been able to start it from standing next to it. I bought it like that. I did not check the pto, but I will. When I turn the key, sometimes the dash will light up and sometimes not. When it lights, the relay starts buzzing. I turn to start and nothing happens, except buzzing stops.

Sounds more like bad ground connections to dash components.

 

[Firefighterontheside]

Sounds more like bad ground connections to dash components.

I'm at a loss. I can't find any bad ground. I have power at the starter, but it won't turn over when I jump the large connection to the spade. One time it sparked, but now won't do that.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I'm at a loss. I can't find any bad ground. I have power at the starter, but it won't turn over when I jump the large connection to the spade. One time it sparked, but now won't do that.

So large terminal (battery cable from battery to starter) to small terminal (spade) and it does nothing, except spark once.

You have only a few choices:
1: Bad connections / cable on either end of the positive. (likely)
2: Bad connections / cable on either end of the ground(negative). (very likely)
3: Bad battery, need to have it load tested.(possible)
4: bad starter (not very likely)

All symptoms point to bad connections or cables!

 

[GreensvilleJay]

maybe clean the battery terminals really,really good ?
I've had them 'look fine' but remove to see NOT fine....

 

[Firefighterontheside]

We cleaned pos and neg at battery very good. I have 12.5 v at starter. Must be the ground.

 

[Henro]

I doubt this will help at all, but I can tell you that if the fuel cutoff solenoid is removed from my much smaller BX2200, the starter will not turn over. The circuit that energizes the starter solenoid is completed through one of the coils in the fuel cut off solenoid. If the coil within the fuel cut off solenoid that is related to the starter solenoid opened, the tractor would not turn over, even if jumped as the Wolfman suggested.

I am only mentioning this, since you saw a spark when doing what the Wolfman suggested.

Wondering if there is a chance that your larger tractor has a similar setup, and that maybe the spark you saw occurred when a defective coil in the fuel cutoff solenoid was fried and became open circuited, after being give a shot of full voltage from the battery, due to jumping from the large wire at the starter to the spade connector for the solenoid circuit.

Like I said, this us just speculation as I have no knowledge of your tractor...might be something to consider, I do not know.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I doubt this will help at all, but I can tell you that if the fuel cutoff solenoid is removed from my much smaller BX2200, the starter will not turn over. The circuit that energizes the starter solenoid is completed through one of the coils in the fuel cut off solenoid. If the coil within the fuel cut off solenoid that is related to the starter solenoid opened, the tractor would not turn over, even if jumped as the Wolfman suggested.

I am only mentioning this, since you saw a spark when doing what the Wolfman suggested.

Wondering if there is a chance that your larger tractor has a similar setup, and that maybe the spark you saw occurred when a defective coil in the fuel cutoff solenoid was fried and became open circuited, after being give a shot of full voltage from the battery, due to jumping from the large wire at the starter to the spade connector for the solenoid circuit.

Like I said, this us just speculation as I have no knowledge of your tractor...might be something to consider, I do not know.

No the L4200's don't have that circuit.

 

[Firefighterontheside]

No the L4200's don't have that circuit.

On the starter, I assume I need to unplug the wire attached to the spade and then jump from the big terminal 3/4" away

 

[RalphVa]

You should be able to run a jumper cable from the positive post of the battery directly to the positive post on the starter. A relay is in there so that the ignition switch doesn't have to carry the big current load.

You might want someone else to turn the ignition switch to glow position for at least 3 seconds before you connect the 2nd end of the cable.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You should be able to run a jumper cable from the positive post of the battery directly to the positive post on the starter. A relay is in there so that the ignition switch doesn't have to carry the big current load.

You might want someone else to turn the ignition switch to glow position for at least 3 seconds before you connect the 2nd end of the cable.

Ralph on Kubota starters, you already have the battery cable connection attached to it.
It's not like a ford starter, there is not HIGH amp relay, to power the starter.
Only a low amp relay that's used to transfer the low amp signal from the ignition switch and all the safety switches to the solenoid on the starter.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

On the starter, I assume I need to unplug the wire attached to the spade and then jump from the big terminal 3/4" away

Yes disconnecting the solenoid in feed is fine, it will work either way.

Try this, with a set of good jumper cables run the positive to the battery and to the big lug on the starter.
now try jumping the solenoid, anything?

Then do the same with the negative side of the battery and connect the other side to a cleaned up mounting spot on the starter, now try jumping the solenoid again, anything?

If either step results in a crank condition, that cable is bad or the connections are bad.

The fact that you state that the dash lights go out intermittently, points to a bad cable or connection.

 

[Firefighterontheside]

Yes disconnecting the solenoid in feed is fine, it will work either way.

Try this, with a set of good jumper cables run the positive to the battery and to the big lug on the starter.
now try jumping the solenoid, anything?

Then do the same with the negative side of the battery and connect the other side to a cleaned up mounting spot on the starter, now try jumping the solenoid again, anything?

If either step results in a crank condition, that cable is bad or the connections are bad.

The fact that you state that the dash lights go out intermittently, points to a bad cable or connection.

I’m charging the battery right now. I will get the battery good and charged and then try this method tomorrow. Thanks For all suggestions.

 

[Firefighterontheside]

So, I went out and disconnected the battery charger because I didn’t want it on all night. I decided to give the key a turn. It cranked. I did it again and it cranked again. Its hard to believe that was the problem, but my dad did a good job of taking apart the cable clamp and cleaning it. I had my truck which is a dual alternator, dual battery diesel hooked up to it and it did nothing. Is this a sign that the battery is bad or just that the cable was corroded? The battery is 4 years old. Maybe I’m due. I will try to actually start it in the morning.

 

[85Hokie]

So, I went out and disconnected the battery charger because I didn’t want it on all night. I decided to give the key a turn. It cranked. I did it again and it cranked again. Its hard to believe that was the problem, but my dad did a good job of taking apart the cable clamp and cleaning it. I had my truck which is a dual alternator, dual battery diesel hooked up to it and it did nothing. Is this a sign that the battery is bad or just that the cable was corroded? The battery is 4 years old. Maybe I’m due. I will try to actually start it in the morning.

Remember this about volts ........... you can have 12.5 volts through a wire the size of a human hair .............. but when the switch is thrown, that hair will NOT handle the electron FLOW ........... AMPS. Volts are wonderful but AMPS make that starter spin.

95% of the time as others mentioned - the no start situation is typically ONE of TWO things.......... weak battery or poor connections to and from said battery.

 

[D2Cat]

Many folks have start engine problems and never think to remove and clean the battery ground cable to the frame and clean the area round the bold hole.

 

[Firefighterontheside]

Unfortunately it’s 0° this mornin, so starting the tractor is not gonna happen anytime soon. My glow plugs have not worked since I got the tractor. In taking apart the dash I found the glow relay, so I have ordered a new one and hopefully that will cure that problem.

 

[RalphVa]

Ralph on Kubota starters, you already have the battery cable connection attached to it.
It's not like a ford starter, there is not HIGH amp relay, to power the starter.
Only a low amp relay that's used to transfer the low amp signal from the ignition switch and all the safety switches to the solenoid on the starter.

Yeah, Idaho Wolfman is more correct. Already have the battery cable to it. Just need to jumper to where the ignition switch would send the juice.