BX25: Loading Rear Tires with Backhoe Installed

[2fast916]

Hi!

I would like to add rimguard or alternative ballast to my rear industrial tires. I also have a full set of turf tires that I use mainly for summer months / mowing / light duty work. I use the industrial tires for winter months / heavy duty work. After reviewing the owner's manual, I read that it is not recommended to have the tires filled and have the backhoe installed at the same time. This hurts my head because I don't want to fill the tires only to have to constantly swap when the backhoe is installed. Can anyone provide a technical reason why I can't load the tires and install the backhoe at the same time? Could I conservatively load the tires to let’s say 50% and still install the backhoe? Any issues with any other implement that would hang from the 3-point hitch???

I will admit that I haven't searched the forum but, am hopping this is an easy answer. I did send a request to Kubota for the same info and am waiting a response. As soon as it's received, I can add to this thread for future info.

Thanks!

jon

 

[85Hokie]

that seems funny to not have filled rears and BH on, read my manual too, must have missed that, saw somewhere, dont load the front ones... mine came that way straight from the dealer... Only thought that comes to me off the tip of my pointed head it that the weight of the tires is rasied via the outriggers....never had a problem, and maybe it is not a problem. if the backhoe is tucked in, it adds approx 700# to the rear end, ballast adds more, but the ballast is on the ground adding traction. Now if you took the front bucket off and ran around with the BH on....still dont see how the physics are bad to have loaded rear tires. Wet yards.....dents in the grass......

 

[2fast916]

that seems funny to not have filled rears and BH on, read my manual too, must have missed that, saw somewhere, dont load the front ones... mine came that way straight from the dealer... Only thought that comes to me off the tip of my pointed head it that the weight of the tires is rasied via the outriggers....never had a problem, and maybe it is not a problem. if the backhoe is tucked in, it adds approx 700# to the rear end, ballast adds more, but the ballast is on the ground adding traction. Now if you took the front bucket off and ran around with the BH on....still dont see how the physics are bad to have loaded rear tires. Wet yards.....dents in the grass......

Thanks, 85Hokie!!!

You share my thoughts exactally!!!

FYI...I only want to fill the rear tires...and only the industrial tires. I plan on leaving the turf tires unfilled, to minimize lawn damage when it's wet or in general.

 

[85Hokie]

looking into it deeper....(stole this from tractbynet board)
he makes a good point:

I think the only "bigger issue" is with Kubota's failure to explain the "advice" to use un-ballasted tires with their hoes.
The earlier explanation that it MIGHT be (fear of) a liability issue with the rating of the ROPS seems likely to me.
Lets see; If my tractor rolled over with un-ballasted tires the rear wheel that would be up in the air would weigh somewhere around 400 lbs.
Same/similar rollover with ballasted tires would have a 950 lb or so loaded wheel up in the air.
That is just the static condition.

I speculate that WHILE ROLLING the additional mass could accumulate sufficient more energy to complete the roll, e.g. it could make the difference between on it's side or on it's roll bar - with an extra 1100 lbs in the tires (and the ~1100 lb hoe).

So; IF a tip-over "happens" you might be better off with no tire ballast.
If you ballast the tires I think the tractor is less likely to roll over, under same/similar circumstances, though once tipped it is more likely to roll completely.

 

[2fast916]

looking into it deeper....(stole this from tractbynet board)
he makes a good point:

I think the only "bigger issue" is with Kubota's failure to explain the "advice" to use un-ballasted tires with their hoes.
The earlier explanation that it MIGHT be (fear of) a liability issue with the rating of the ROPS seems likely to me.
Lets see; If my tractor rolled over with un-ballasted tires the rear wheel that would be up in the air would weigh somewhere around 400 lbs.
Same/similar rollover with ballasted tires would have a 950 lb or so loaded wheel up in the air.
That is just the static condition.

I speculate that WHILE ROLLING the additional mass could accumulate sufficient more energy to complete the roll, e.g. it could make the difference between on it's side or on it's roll bar - with an extra 1100 lbs in the tires (and the ~1100 lb hoe).

So; IF a tip-over "happens" you might be better off with no tire ballast.
If you ballast the tires I think the tractor is less likely to roll over, under same/similar circumstances, though once tipped it is more likely to roll completely.

I see the logic in this...classic how Lawyers seem to rule the world these days.

If I hear anything back from Kubota, I'll certainly post their response in full. Should be interesting

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If you "roll" a tractor with both loaded tires and a backhoe then you've done something terribly wrong!

 

[2fast916]

Going to drop them off on Monday...still haven't heard from Kubota.

 

[Ironhorse]

I noticed the same thing in the manual but the dealer had already suggested it and delivered it that way. It really doesn't add a huge amount of weight to a BX25D. In fact I'm pretty sure my butt adds more weight to the machine than the filling in the tires.

I'd guess that the pressure of pulling up a stubborn root or rock would add more "weight" than the liquid in the tires anyway.

 

[2fast916]

Drum roll please....here is the official response I received from Kubota:

"Thanks for you inquiry, Jon. First, the operators manual gives you guidelines on how to correctly ballast your machine depending on the type of implements or attachments you have on the front and back of your machine. Our recommendation would be to always follow the recommendations and guidelines as laid out in the owner's manual.

That being said, if you choose to add ballast while a backhoe is attached, use caution so to not overload the tires or the machine. Your machine is intended to have tire slippage when encountering a certain load capacity and overloading the rear end will affect that slippage point. You don't want to transfer the overloading breakaway point from the intended slippage of the tires to something in your rear end or drive line. Basically, use caution when adding additional weight and ballast to your machine - especially when encountering any sort of load."

-------------------------------------

And here is my follow-up response / question:

A quick follow up question...when I'm using the backhoe, the outriggers are down and most of the weight is off the rear tires. That being said, how would I have any slippage with the rear tires?

-------------------------------------

Dropped my tires off on Monday to have them filled...waiting for a call to pick them up.

 

[85Hokie]

I love that question....... I think what he (she)was trying to say, you got lots of weight witth the backhoe ( 700 ish)
got news for the Kubota peeps....them thar tires gonna spin on CONCRETE if pushed too hard......true there will be more and more pressure on the drivetrain if someone was to load and spin like a crazy fool......

but I only notice the wieght in the tires WHEN I took them off! to put the spacers on......guessing - about #50 in each tire. So adding 100 pounds is really no differnt that a "fat" guy on the seat.....did I say that with my outside voice....sitting on my ars.at 220!

 

[2fast916]

And here is my follow-up response / question:

A quick follow up question...when I'm using the backhoe, the outriggers are down and most of the weight is off the rear tires. That being said, how would I have any slippage with the rear tires?

And here is Kubota's response to my last question:

"In that circumstance you wouldn't - but it would be wise to use caution in other applications and circumstances."


Bottom line...thanks for everyones help / advice / suggestions. My tires are being filled and I won't loose any sleep using them with any impliment.

BTW, 85Hokie...you had me laughing so hard about an operator's weight!!! So true!!!!!

 

[2fast916]

Picked up my Rimguard loaded tires this past Friday but, haven’t had a chance to mount them yet. I will eventually weigh them but, my muscle dyno states that they are somewhere in the 100+ lb range.

Couple of quick questions…

The dealer that installed the Rimguard (i.e. a JD dealer that is close to my house) stated that they typically install some sort of metal valve stem vs. the OEM rubber stem. They said they’ve seen occurrences where the rubber stem does not hold and blows out. That being said, those that have loaded Kubota BX25 tires, what type of valve stem is in your rim? The JD dealer said they looked for a metal stem for my rims but couldn’t source one. Curious if they looked hard enough or if I should waste my time worrying that the rubber ones will blow out.

The other question I have is how much air / psi do you typically run? The JD dealer stated to install the tires and only add a small amount of air (maybe 5 psi) but, essentially look at the bottom of the tire and ensure it still stays relatively flat at the bottom….or said another way, if the tire is round, you added too much air. Any comments or tips?

Thanks!

 

[Paulemar]

I always thought that you were supposed to pressure up the tires to the recommended pressure whether they have liquid in the tires for ballast or not. 5 psi is not enough and sounds downright dangerous. That pressure is not going to keep a liquid filled tire from popping off the rim under some pretty common circumstances. The need for a metal valve stem sounds bogus too. I think that guy was blowing some serious smoke.

 

[2fast916]

I always thought that you were supposed to pressure up the tires to the recommended pressure whether they have liquid in the tires for ballast or not. 5 psi is not enough and sounds downright dangerous. That pressure is not going to keep a liquid filled tire from popping off the rim under some pretty common circumstances. The need for a metal valve stem sounds bogus too. I think that guy was blowing some serious smoke.

I could have sworn that I read the same in the Kubota manual about filling with same psi but, now I can't find it again.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

They must be selling Rimguard by the gallon and hopes that if you put 5 PSI in your tires they will pop off the rim and you'll have to pay to have them done again!
Fill them to what the pressure on the side of the tire!

 

[2fast916]

They must be selling Rimguard by the gallon and hopes that if you put 5 PSI in your tires they will pop off the rim and you'll have to pay to have them done again!
Fill them to what the pressure on the side of the tire!

Roger that....thanks, guys!!!