B7100 stalls on clutch release won’t roll in neutral.

[BradMW]

Hello,

New Kubota owner and group member here.

I just got my B7100 put back together after taking the manual transmission in to the local Kubota dealer for repair.

The splines to the front drive on the front of the transmission were broke off, the connecting u-joint missing, the input seal and support housing damaged presumably when the front drive splines broke and it leaked a lot of oil from the seal. That was all fixed at the dealer.

I got the repaired transmission installed and the tractor back together and topped up with oil. I then put the front and rear wheels up on jack stands and ran the tractor in 1st and reverse gear with the 4WD engaged to confirm there were no issues with the front diff that may have caused the drive splines to break. The front and rear wheels turned with no abnormal noise or issues. I put it back on the ground backed it out of my garage and took it for a test drive down in my field trail.

it went down the trail a good ways with no issues. I dropped the FEL and pushed some dirt to even up the trail in a spot, still no issues. I did the same in another spot and then went to put the tractor in reverse and when I released the clutch the engine stalled. I restarted the tractor and tried this time to put it in 1st gear. It stalled again when I released the clutch. I put it in neutral and tried to get it to roll and it acted as if the brake were set or the driveline was bound up. It wouldn’t budge.

I should also mention that I had the rear R4 tires foam filled when I had the transmission off for repair to add some weight for traction and make it harder to roll over since I have some steep grades on my property.

Any ideas what I might check or where to start? Major work on it is going to be a challenge since it’s basically stuck in the field as-is.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Pau7220]

It could be as simple as being stuck in 1st and reverse at the same time. You'll probably need to pull the shifter out then align the shift gates with a bar or screwdriver while rocking the tractor. You may also find something broken in there, or on the shift forks. Good luck!

 

[Dave_eng]

I am in agreement with Paul7720 in that you are in two gears at the same time. This happens more frequently on old tractors when the transmission is stressed such as when pushing with a loader and then shifting to reverse while the stresses are still on the gears.

Remove the top of the transmission and see if you can move all shifter forks to the neutral position and then re-install the shift lever.

In the future make certain your clutch has free play especially when it is hot from slipping as you use the loader.

Over time you will become skilled in the fork re-alignment and be able to do it in minutes.

Dave

 

[BradMW]

It could be as simple as being stuck in 1st and reverse at the same time. You'll probably need to pull the shifter out then align the shift gates with a bar or screwdriver while rocking the tractor. You may also find something broken in there, or on the shift forks. Good luck!

Thanks @Pau7220 and @Dave_eng! I’ll check this out and message back with how it goes. It just seems odd because I never had it happen before the rebuild.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Thanks @Pau7220 and @Dave_eng! I’ll check this out and message back with how it goes. It just seems odd because I never had it happen before the rebuild.

According to the parts diagram, your transmission uses a check plate to control the shift pattern and detent springs and balls.
While you're in there you could check the plate for wear and proper installation.
Also, can you feel the shift forks 'click' in the detent when you move them to neutral? If those balls and springs aren't in good order, vibration can make the fork slide out of neutral.

 

[BradMW]

According to the parts diagram, your transmission uses a check plate to control the shift pattern and detent springs and balls.
While you're in there you could check the plate for wear and proper installation.
Also, can you feel the shift forks 'click' in the detent when you move them to neutral? If those balls and springs aren't in good order, vibration can make the fork slide out of neutral.

Is it possible you’re talking about the hydrostatic B7100? I don’t recall mine having a shift plate or any kind of detent(s). It’s a regular manual trans that has the shifter going to a couple of shift forks that connect to the gear synchros.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Is it possible you’re talking about the hydrostatic B7100? I don’t recall mine having a shift plate or any kind of detent(s). It’s a regular manual trans that has the shifter going to a couple of shift forks that connect to the gear synchros.

Does yours look like the figure in post #2 above? Part 25 is the check plate and you can see the balls and springs at each fork. The balls snap into grooves in the shift rails when you shift to hold the forks in gear or neutral.
I suppose the gear shifter could be worn where it rubs the check plate also.

 

[BradMW]

Does yours look like the figure in post #2 above? Part 25 is the check plate and you can see the balls and springs at each fork. The balls snap into grooves in the shift rails when you shift to hold the forks in gear or neutral.
I suppose the gear shifter could be worn where it rubs the check plate also.

Yes this looks like what I have. I had the entire shift assembly/cover off when the transmission was out for rebuild but I never had the detents or shift plate apart at that time. With the cover off the detents create what I would consider a fair amount of resistance so the shift lever doesn’t feel sloppy.

 

[Dave_eng]

You need to move shift forks until the two notches I marked up are facing each other.

Gears need to be slid so they are in the right place to mate with shift forks when top is replaced.

Dave

 

[BradMW]

You need to move shift forks until the two notches I marked up are facing each other.

Gears need to be slid so they are in the right place to mate with shift forks when top is replaced. View attachment 67524

Dave

I did as you say here earlier today after siphoning the oil from the trans case to confirm there was no damage below the oil level. I refilled it and put the cover back on with the shift forks in neutral, aligning the respective gears with the forks.

I tried starting it but it wouldn’t fire. This is a separate problem though. I threw the battery on a charger and will try again tomorrow morning.

 

[BradMW]

Getting stuck with both 1st and reverse engaged does seem to be the issue. After putting the trans cover back on and the battery recharged I was able to get it in gear without it stalling. As I was pushing dirt around I had it happen a few more times. If I’m on fairly level ground it’s not a problem. I can put the tractor in neutral and rock it a little and it works itself out. But if I’m not on level ground rocking it doesn’t do the trick. Is there a part I should look into replacing to fix the issue? Or is it just something I have to learn to live with given a tractor this age?

 

[PoTreeBoy]

How long have you owned this tractor?
Did it ever do this before?
Did you take the top cover to the dealer with the transmission?
I'm no transmission expert, my only manual transmission experience was with a '75 Toyota Hilux 5 speed that did what yours is doing. But it used sliding pins to prevent lock-up - one of those was boogered - unlike yours.
You could check the clearance between the forks and grooves on the gears. Maybe the WSM gives limits, I have no idea.
Other than that, the issue has to be in the top cover, I think.

 

[BradMW]

How long have you owned this tractor?
Did it ever do this before?
Did you take the top cover to the dealer with the transmission?
I'm no transmission expert, my only manual transmission experience was with a '75 Toyota Hilux 5 speed that did what yours is doing. But it used sliding pins to prevent lock-up - one of those was boogered - unlike yours.
You could check the clearance between the forks and grooves on the gears. Maybe the WSM gives limits, I have no idea.
Other than that, the issue has to be in the top cover, I think.

I bought it from a guy last May. It never had this problem before but I was also not able to push dirt with the FEL before without the rear wheels rutting into the sandy soil we have. I just got the front drive shaft reconnected because the front output spline was broken off the trans when I bought it. I got the rear tires foam filled for added weight at the same time I had the trans fixed. I did not take the top cover to the dealer with the trans because it was off to aid disconnecting it from the tractor and was not sent as part of the problems being fixed at that time. I think all the added traction is probably revealing a another problem that was always there.

 

[BradMW]

Removed the trans cover again and got things realigned. Was pushing dirt again and felt like I had a feel for when the gears were loaded to where I shouldn’t try to force a shift.

.... then I had no forward or reverse when I released the clutch and the engine didn’t stall. I think the clutch just went.

 

[Pau7220]

Definitely go to kobotabooks.com and download the WSM. Make sure they installed the gears on the clusters correctly. There is a possibility a gear or spacer was installed backwards or out of order..... especially if you never had a problem before they worked on it. A call to them wouldn't hurt. You shouldn't have to "force" a shift.

 

[Henro]

Removed the trans cover again and got things realigned. Was pushing dirt again and felt like I had a feel for when the gears were loaded to where I shouldn’t try to force a shift.

.... then I had no forward or reverse when I released the clutch and the engine didn’t stall. I think the clutch just went.

I don’t know your tractor, but my clutch also affects the PTO, so I would select the rear PTO and see if the clutch caused it to start and stop turning. If so I would GUESS the clutch was still working.

 

[BradMW]

Definitely go to kobotabooks.com and download the WSM. Make sure they installed the gears on the clusters correctly. There is a possibility a gear or spacer was installed backwards or out of order..... especially if you never had a problem before they worked on it. A call to them wouldn't hurt. You shouldn't have to "force" a shift.

It’s not so much forcing it into a gear as much as it seems to be getting it to release the gear I’m moving from. It feels like I have to use more force to get it out of the current gear at times. When I feel that I shift my weight back and forth and rock the tractor a bit. Then it slides out of gear with less effort.

 

[BradMW]

I don’t know your tractor, but my clutch also affects the PTO, so I would select the rear PTO and see if the clutch caused it to start and stop turning. If so I would GUESS the clutch was still working.

I’ll check that out now.

 

[BradMW]

I don’t know your tractor, but my clutch also affects the PTO, so I would select the rear PTO and see if the clutch caused it to start and stop turning. If so I would GUESS the clutch was still working.

Strange, the pto does still work. That would have to mean that the clutch is transferring power.

 

[Russell King]

You are probably not getting it to select any gear now.

The shift lever may be moving but really not doing what is required inside the transmission to actually move the gears into proper position.

I think if you try to align the shift forks and gears again it will shift again for a while then stop working again...