When the wind decides to turn a barn into a chicken coop!

mcmxi

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I received a quote from Worldwide Steel Buildings which is fairly reasonable. I've asked for a couple more variations on the quote such as 14' at the eaves rather than 12' as well as 12' self supporting eave extensions. I'll provide those estimates when I receive them.

My plan is to make a covered area i.e. lean-to, the entire length of the 50' building for implements, trailers etc., and for covered parking for a camper if I rent out a space over the summer months. WWSB offers a good solution for that. The eave extension has a 2:12 pitch so would look better with a 4:12 pitch roof which is what I'd opt for. The schematic below shows the same pitch for the roof and eave extension which looks ugly to me.

At the moment WWSB looks like the best option for a kit building. The design supports 60lb/sq.ft snow loading as well as 115 mph wind loading on the gable ends.

wws_frame.jpg
 

mcmxi

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Did they give you any idea of costs of shipping, installation, or cost of the materials?
A 30'x50' with 12' eave height would cost about $38,500 shipped to me. That includes all trusses, columns, steel purlins, hardware, siding (29 gauge), framing for four windows, framing for one door and framing for two 10'x12' overhead doors. I would have to do the installation myself but it's not that difficult. I would have a friend or two help me for a couple of days.

The 12' eave extensions are obviously going to add some cost as would 14' vs. 12' eave height.

I spoke to my neighbor yesterday and hopefully this weekend he can give me some idea of how much the concrete would cost. I'd like to make use of the grade to gain elevation under the eave extension but that would mean more concrete and more cost.
 
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DustyRusty

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Around here the last quote on concrete that I got was $105 a yard. When I started calculating the cost of a 5" floor for a new garage, I decided that I would wait to see if prices would drop in a year or so. Nine months later, nothing has dropped very much in price, so I have put my building project on hold. I am making do with my 25'x 16' canvas garage. That is why I asked about the costs. I like the design that you are going with, but for me, it is more building than I actually need. My wife says, throw out everything in the garage, and I will have plenty of room without building anything. I agree, but I suffer from mild hoarding and have a hard time getting rid of things that I use occasionally, but not sure if it is a good idea to get rid of them permanently.
 
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mcmxi

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Around here the last quote on concrete that I got was $105 a yard. When I started calculating the cost of a 5" floor for a new garage, I decided that I would wait to see if prices would drop in a year or so. Nine months later, nothing has dropped very much in price, so I have put my building project on hold. I am making do with my 25'x 16' canvas garage. That is why I asked about the costs. I like the design that you are going with, but for me, it is more building than I actually need. My wife says, throw out everything in the garage, and I will have plenty of room without building anything. I agree, but I suffer from mild hoarding and have a hard time getting rid of things that I use occasionally, but not sure if it is a good idea to get rid of them permanently.
Concrete is about the same here. Looking at the image above, I wouldn't have the feature on the left side, just a simple 30'x50' building with the 12' eave extension. I like that I could turn this building into a very nice shop in the future if needed without having to undo anything. I'll look into having features incorporated into the concrete that would be way more expensive to add after the fact.
 

mcmxi

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I just received an updated quote from WWSB.

30'x50' with 14' eave height $40,500
30'x50' with 12' eave height and 12' self supporting eave extension along one long side $46,923
 

Russell King

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Does it have to be on full concrete or can it sit on piers?
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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You do know that 60lb snow load is not advisable up here.
Example my house trusses are 140lb snow load for a 40 foot clear span.
 
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mcmxi

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Does it have to be on full concrete or can it sit on piers?
A pole frame building can sit on concrete piers that are typically 36" to 48" deep so no doubt a steel building can too. I've thought about digging 24" holes at each column location i.e. 10' spacing and pouring 42" deep piers with added rebar to tie it into a 6" slab. I'd set j-bolts or similar deep into the concrete to bolt the columns in place.

I'd rather have 42" or deeper foundation walls with a 5" to 6" slab since it will prevent critters from burrowing under the slab, and prevent the concrete from heaving. I spoke with my neighbor this morning and he's going to try to come over tomorrow after his son has finished a downhill skiing race. If I can get the concrete done for $10k or less I'll be pleased. If it's stupid money I'll have to revisit the idea of piers at each column location and maybe the same down the center of the slab.
 
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mcmxi

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You do know that 60lb snow load is not advisable up here.
Example my house trusses are 140lb snow load for a 40 foot clear span.
That's really high. 60 lb/ft^2 is the spec at my house and that's based on a 100 year snow event. The pitch, insulation and other variables have to be considered too since they affect how much snow can remain on the roof. Saturated snow weighs about 20 lb/ft^3 so I'd need to have 3 ft of saturated snow on the roof to get to the 60 lb/ft^2 rating. 3 ft of snow on the roof is very unlikely, and 3 ft of saturated snow even less likely.
 
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DustyRusty

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That's really high. 60 lb/ft^2 is the spec at my house and that's based on a 100 year snow event. The pitch, insulation and other variables have to be considered too since they affect how much snow can remain on the roof. Saturated snow weighs about 20 lb/ft^3 so I'd need to have 3 ft of saturated snow on the roof to get to the 60 lb/ft^2 rating. 3 ft of snow on the roof is very unlikely, and 3 ft of saturated snow even less likely.
There are 7.48 gallons of water in a cubic foot, and water weighs 8 pounds per gallon. I have no way of knowing exactly how much water is in a cubic foot of water-saturated snow, but I am inclined to believe that it is more than 20 pounds. I guess that it has more to do with how many inches of rain you get after the snow stops falling.
 

mcmxi

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There are 7.48 gallons of water in a cubic foot, and water weighs 8 pounds per gallon. I have no way of knowing exactly how much water is in a cubic foot of water-saturated snow, but I am inclined to believe that it is more than 20 pounds. I guess that it has more to do with how many inches of rain you get after the snow stops falling.
There's an informative table in the link below.

 

DustyRusty

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There's an informative table in the link below.

Thanks for that link. I read a lot of good information about roofs and snow. While reading it, I realized that I forgot to turn on the rood deicing cables after our snow 2 days ago. Going to do that now.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Thanks for the snow information:
As of Right now I have 3 to 5 foot of snow on my roof on a 5:12 pitch steel roof, so a lot of wet / iced heavy snow.
I will be happy when it melts / slides off!
At the rate we are going it's going to be late April!
 

mcmxi

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Thanks for the snow information:
As of Right now I have 3 to 5 foot of snow on my roof on a 5:12 pitch steel roof, so a lot of wet / iced heavy snow.
I will be happy when it melts / slides off!
At the rate we are going it's going to be late April!
Obviously the pitch is important too since gravity is acting in the vertical direction. Each truss for my project needs to support 12,500 lb snow load if the roof is 4:12 and that value drops to 11,700 lb for a 6:12 pitch. Both of these values assume 10' truss spacing and a 60 lb/sq.ft snow load.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Obviously the pitch is important too since gravity is acting in the vertical direction. Each truss for my project needs to support 12,500 lb snow load if the roof is 4:12 and that value drops to 11,700 lb for a 6:12 pitch. Both of these values assume 10' truss spacing and a 60 lb/sq.ft snow load.
Sounds like you have it under control! ;)
 
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mcmxi

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A couple more data points based on recent quotes.

10'x10' R18 insulated metal door with track $3,214 (does not include installation)
10x12' R18 insulated metal door with track $3,784 (does not include installation)
 

mcmxi

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go for the small difference in price for the wider door.
The difference in the doors is the height rather than the width. I'm planning on 10'x10' doors since they require less overhead clearance inside the barn for the track and door. 10' is plenty of clearance for my needs.

As far as I know, 24" is the minimum high lift height and you need to add another 12" to that height plus the height of the door to obtain the minimum clearance beneath the trusses. A 10' high door would need 13' of clearance beneath the trusses. I'll be placing the underside of the trusses 14' off the concrete.
 

DustyRusty

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The difference in the doors is the height rather than the width. I'm planning on 10'x10' doors since they require less overhead clearance inside the barn for the track and door. 10' is plenty of clearance for my needs.

As far as I know, 24" is the minimum high lift height and you need to add another 12" to that height plus the height of the door to obtain the minimum clearance beneath the trusses. A 10' high door would need 13' of clearance beneath the trusses. I'll be placing the underside of the trusses 14' off the concrete.
I have a 10' x 10' door with a double torsion spring set up with an 11' ceiling height and it uses regular tracks. It is a steel door with insulation between the 2 layers of steel and 2" thick. The track is mounted right to the ceiling. On my rear overhead door, it is a 9' x 9' x 2" insulated door, and that track used to hang down from the ceiling. I have since removed the track and am going to install a Liftmaster sidewinder door operator since it will give me more height for a car on the lift when the door is closed. I would suggest that you talk to the door installer before ordering the door, and he can give you a better understanding of your available options. You also might get a better door for the same or less money from a local door company. When I built our home, the contractor that I hired gave me a price for the doors, and I checked with a local company, who gave me a better price and a better door. When I had a problem they came out and serviced the door at no charge, since they sold it to me. Another thing to think about is that a local door company orders doors by the truckload, and should you need a replacement panel because you happened to run into the door, they can replace a panel from inventory, versus having to get one from the company supplying the building to match.
 
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