Warming HST oil VS engine oil

Henro

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B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex.
May 24, 2019
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After 20 years of ownership, a question popped into my mind.

In cold weather I do have a block heater that I can use for making starting easier.

BUT after starting the engine and letting it run a bit until the water temperature comes up, how about the HST hydraulic oil?

Is it satisfactory to just run the loader up and down a couple times, and then run the tractor slow a bit, before working it harder?

Or should I be doing something differently?

Always trying to learn...
 

kubotafreak

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GRAND l6060, L3560, B6100, gr2100, tg 1860, g1800, g1900, g2160
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Running through the pump, and over relief valves warm it. Unfortunately there is not a way to keep it from pumping around when super cold at startup. If your warming the engine, I would just let it warm up with conduction. I wouldnt try to hurry the proccess by moving it across valves. You will notice the hydraulics throb when the fluid is too cold.
 
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Henro

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Running through the pump, and over relief valves warm it. Unfortunately there is not a way to keep it from pumping around when super cold at startup. If your warming the engine, I would just let it warm up with conduction. I wouldnt try to hurry the proccess by moving it across valves. You will notice the hydraulics throb when the fluid is too cold.
Being an open center system, with the power beyond circuit, the relief valves would not come into the picture I suspect.

BUT I guess fluid would be circulating within the power beyond circuit, so it should be warming up a bit during the time the engine is running.

Is this correct?
 

kubotafreak

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Being an open center system, with the power beyond circuit, the relief valves would not come into the picture I suspect.

BUT I guess fluid would be circulating within the power beyond circuit, so it should be warming up a bit during the time the engine is running.

Is this correct?
correct,
I was meaning during use for the pressure reliefs, and control valves.
You should notice the fluid does not get very hot unless you have a backhoe or something requiring a bunch of valve modulation.
 

Kurtee

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BX2660, BX2680 cab, JD 2032R, Honda 5518, JD X590, JD X739
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Just as a point of interest John Deere offers a hydro oil heater. I had one installed on my 2032R before I got it along with a block heater. The hydro heater is under the PTO on the rear.
 
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Henro

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B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex.
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correct,
I was meaning during use for the pressure reliefs, and control valves.
You should notice the fluid does not get very hot unless you have a backhoe or something requiring a bunch of valve modulation.
So I have kind of concluded that what I have been doing over the years is OK.

That is, warming up the engine, then running the tractors a bit in low range slowly for a while, to give the hydraulic system a bit of time to warm up...before actually doing any useful work...
 
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airbiscuit

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You could put a magnetic heater or a silicone heater under the transmission. Letting the PTO run while you are warming it up will also warm up the hydraulic/transmission fluid.

1642456325119.png
 

RalphVa

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A couple days ago, I just started and immediately started using the FEL and back blade and, of course, running the tractor to clear heavy, wet snow. I've never ever just let them sit and warm up.
 
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Dave_eng

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M7040, Nuffield 465
Oct 6, 2012
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A couple days ago, I just started and immediately started using the FEL and back blade and, of course, running the tractor to clear heavy, wet snow. I've never ever just let them sit and warm up.
I always felt it was prudent to follow Kubota's recommendations published in most Owner's manual.

Since my M7040 was new in 2012, I noticed a pulsing back and forth motion when starting in very cold weather. Initially it was quite concerning but over time I learned this action slowed and then stopped once the warmup procedure was ended.

Recently I came across this post and a Kubota rep reply on another forum:

I have a two year old M7040 power shuttle. I noticed this week when I started the unit the tractor would rock back and forth during warm up with the idle rpm set at 1400 rpm. Both the main transmission and shuttle were in neutral at the time.

When the tractor is warm this does not occur. I have advised my dealer and they agree that shouldn't/can't happen but advised that I should keep the parking brake on while sitting unattended. That doesn't solve anything. What's funny is that if I take the idle rpm to 2000 rpm or lower it to 1000rpm the rocking stops. I did a search on this forum and found a thread called "jerky hydraulics" that mirrors my problem exactly. Unfortunately the thread was never updated as to what was found to be causing the problem. Anyone else ever experience this? and if so what was the solution. I have one month of warranty remaining and I would hate to have a problem with these symptoms that may lead to a more serious problem after the expiration of the warranty..although because I have reported the problem to the dealer I would expect them to look after me..I hope



"The scenario as described sounds like a normal condition for tractors equipped with Hydraulic shuttle type transmissions.

Basically the drag applied to the clutch plates within the clutch packs during cold temperatures is enough to simulate some partial drive.
Because tractor is so easy to roll it may in some cases provide a minimal amount of movement if brake is not applied.

Please assure customer that we have not seen any failures related to this and if all procedures related to service and operation are followed as described in OPS manual,
that there should be no concern of a problem to arise.

Hope this helps
Thanks

Henry

My point in providing this to the forum is to provide an instance where cold hydraulic fluid is creating unusual transmission action.

If Kubota feels high idle and a stationary tractor are the best way to get systems working without damage, for my peace of mind, that is what I do.

Dave

ps. Warmup chart

Kubota warm up chart.jpg
 
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RalphVa

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Won't happen when I get my Kubota. I'll start it and use it. Pressure reliefs will protect the hydraulics against cold oil (HST oil is very light). A good 0w30, 5w30 or 10w30 will get oil to the engine parts quickly in all weather: the lower the xxw30 the better.

Think this only applies if using 15w40 goo in the winter.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
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re: I'll start it and use it.
Must be nice to live where it's always warm and sunny. Try that when it's -20*C and you will NOT be going anywhere,fast or soon.
I treat my Kubota like my pickup... each get 10-15 minutes warmup. HST or autotranny ,same to me, BOTH need to be properly warmed up
 
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IanB

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Won't happen when I get my Kubota. I'll start it and use it. Pressure reliefs will protect the hydraulics against cold oil (HST oil is very light). A good 0w30, 5w30 or 10w30 will get oil to the engine parts quickly in all weather: the lower the xxw30 the better.

Think this only applies if using 15w40 goo in the winter.
There's different levels of winter, -20C and below is not "start it and use it" conditions.
 
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OrangePower

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worst case scenario you shove the bucket into the ground, hold the lever there for a minutes. full pressure bypass would shurley warm it up then. No?
 

DustyRusty

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BX23S
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Today when I went out to plow snow, the BX23S the block heater had been plugged in all night. The temperature gauge was exactly where it usually is in the winter when it is below freezing. Unfortunately, the heater in my BX23S is just about useless. My old BX22 with its canvas cab would stay warmer than this with a metal and glass cab, and the BX22 had lots of air leaks.
 

Ikc1990

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I start pull out of barn in low in a few minutes then turn pto on and idle up for at least 15 min if colder longer. Cant wait for next Saturday I'll have my cab heater installed. And front wiper too.
 

ACDII

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B2410, L352 Loader, Woods BH70-X backhoe
Oct 21, 2021
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Stick a log splitter on and cycle it a few times, warms it up quickly! After 20 years, my B2410 was never a cold weather issue, start it, let it run a minute or so and go to work with it. All the cars and trucks I have owned over the years, same thing, get in and drive. Oil flows, or it doesn't, if it doesn't there are bigger issues.

The biggest thing is to not push it HARD until it is warmed up, that's when things get damaged, but normal driving around for a bit before working it won't cause any bit of harm. You wouldn't cold start your car and take off like a bat out of hell, nor would you slam the tractor throttle to full speed after turning the key.
 

kubotafreak

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GRAND l6060, L3560, B6100, gr2100, tg 1860, g1800, g1900, g2160
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Stick a log splitter on and cycle it a few times, warms it up quickly! After 20 years, my B2410 was never a cold weather issue, start it, let it run a minute or so and go to work with it. All the cars and trucks I have owned over the years, same thing, get in and drive. Oil flows, or it doesn't, if it doesn't there are bigger issues.

The biggest thing is to not push it HARD until it is warmed up, that's when things get damaged, but normal driving around for a bit before working it won't cause any bit of harm. You wouldn't cold start your car and take off like a bat out of hell, nor would you slam the tractor throttle to full speed after turning the key.
Great point,
It should probably be noted hst transmissions have much closer operating tolerance on parts. Thus making it more sensitive to these types of situations.
 
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BobInSD

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L5740
Jun 23, 2020
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Won't happen when I get my Kubota. I'll start it and use it. Pressure reliefs will protect the hydraulics against cold oil (HST oil is very light). A good 0w30, 5w30 or 10w30 will get oil to the engine parts quickly in all weather: the lower the xxw30 the better.

Think this only applies if using 15w40 goo in the winter.
That depends on your definition of "winter". We do have to be concerned with those issues, even w/ xxx30, up here in the frozen tundra.
 

TheOldHokie

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That depends on your definition of "winter". We do have to be concerned with those issues, even w/ xxx30, up here in the frozen tundra.
I am sure you do - arctic weather and internal combustion engines are poor playmates. Consider that Kubota's in-house pumping test for SUDT is conducted at -30C (-22F) which I am sure they felt was the limits of what machines would see.

Dan
 
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85Hokie

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That depends on your definition of "winter". We do have to be concerned with those issues, even w/ xxx30, up here in the frozen tundra.

Funny you mention that .......

My students often b*tch about how cold it is here in VA in the winter ........ I'll be a smartass and say, what is YOUR definition of cold? Floridian or Alaskain cold? Cause in the former, 50 F is cold, and in the latter -50 is cold!!!!

Getting back to the topic - if you have S-UDT2 in the hydraulics - it pours almost as good as water - so while a warm up is a great idea, DEPENDING on the "coldness' that will determine the length of warming.
 
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