Voltage output

[Mudball]

Im working with an L2501. After going a couple of days without starting, it sounds like my battery is getting gradually weaker by the sound when cranking the engine over upon a cold start.
My alternator belt had just a slight amount of slack, so I tightened it for the first time since I had it, somewhere around 2 to 3 weeks ago. The maintenance free battery indicator eye is (good) green. The battery terminals are clean and tight.
Anyway, so far I have only checked voltage directly across the battery itself and without the engine running it shows 12.9 V. With the engine running it shows 14.4 V
Maybe Im just hearing things, and for sure these cooler temperatures will tell the story in a month or so.
I cant find any voltage specs, but these voltage results sound like the alternator is working good to me. Can someone give any advice, if my battery should get weaker, as to what else I might need to check, or what I might be doing wrong ?

 

[i7win7]

The battery cables connect to the frame and starter, connections there should be clean and tight also.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

voltages look OK for a battery that needs a good charge. I don't know what alternator is in your tractor, but it should charge up the battery after an hour or so of running at moderate RPM.

 

[Mudball]

The battery cables connect to the frame and starter, connections there should be clean and tight also.

You just got me thinking, even though my battery terminals are clean and tight, maybe I will loosen and re-tighten. Also I will check the connections you mentioned.
Thanks

 

[Mudball]

voltages look OK for a battery that needs a good charge. I don't know what alternator is in your tractor, but it should charge up the battery after an hour or so of running at moderate RPM.

Sound good. Im not sure about the specs on my alternator either. I will keep an eye on it.
Thanks

 

[Dave_eng]

Since you know how and have the tool to measure voltage, put the meter to good use looking for voltage drops in the starting circuit.

The document I have attached is from DENSO a world wide automotive electrical equipment manufacturer.

GM even uses their products on some models.

Focus on the tests intended to identify if there are voltage drops and is so how large

When the tip document mentions a carbon pile load tester, do the test with the engine cranking and lights on instead.

Dave.

 

[Mudball]

Since you know how and have the tool to measure voltage, put the meter to good use looking for voltage drops in the starting circuit.

The document I have attached is from DENSO a world wide automotive electrical equipment manufacturer.

GM even uses their products on some models.

Focus on the tests intended to identify if there are voltage drops and is so how large

When the tip document mentions a carbon pile load tester, do the test with the engine cranking and lights on instead.

Dave.

Thats awesome right there, and it is now saved in my Kubota's favorite list. I might have to ask a few questions about disabling the ignition sytem while cranking, should I get that far, but this is some really great information in basic laymen terms that even I might understand. Lol And I will heed your advice about the headlights on while cranking, but should my results be within spec, can you explain why ?
Thanks

 

[Dave_eng]

Thats awesome right there, and it is now saved in my Kubota's favorite list. I might have to ask a few questions about disabling the ignition sytem while cranking, should I get that far, but this is some really great information in basic laymen terms that even I might understand. Lol And I will heed your advice about the headlights on while cranking, but should my results be within spec, can you explain why ?
Thanks

The purpose of the DENSO tests is to identify places within the battery and starting system where there are high resistance connections.

An electric heater, say a baseboard heater, is just a high resistance circuit. This resistance coupled with current flow produces heat which is the purpose of a baseboard or any heater.

Doing the tests on your tractor is just seeing how much heat i.e.. energy, is being wasted at one point in the starting system

To do the test, the starting circuit and battery circuit need to be consuming amps for the test to be able to detect a poor connection. Hence, in the absence of a load tester, you use what you have to produce current flow which is the starter and headlights

Rather than rely on the voltage drops mentioned in the DENSO procedure, instead focus on the comparative voltage drops withing the battery and starting circuits.

For example, if you measure from the center of the positive battery post to the center of the terminal on the solenoid where the battery cable attaches, and you measure say .2 volts. Now you repeat the same test on the battery ground circuit, one probe on the center of the battery negative terminal and the other pressed tight against the frame of the starter. If you measure 05 volts, comparing it to the previous test where you measured.2 volts, you are being told that the ground side of the battery/starter circuiy has more than twice the resistance it should have.

Please don't hesitate to ask more questions as once you master this type of testing you can apply it to the charging system and many other areas on your tractor.

Dave

 

[Mudball]

Please don't hesitate to ask more questions as once you master this type of testing you can apply it to the charging system and many other areas on your tractor.

Dave

I must confess, some of the first part of what you just said, flew right over the top of my head(lol), but I understood most of it.
It will take me a few days until I get out there and try to apply this troubleshooting method.
However, when you said, "dont hesitate to ask more questions", well that gives me exactly the inspiration I need.
Thanks for going above and beyond my question.

 

[GeoHorn]

If you suspect your battery is getting “weaker”.... the way to determine that is to take it in and have it’s capacity checked. WalMart will do that free, as will AutoZone and NAPA. They can all give you a Print-Out of the test.

 

[Mudball]

If you suspect your battery is getting “weaker”.... the way to determine that is to take it in and have it’s capacity checked. WalMart will do that free, as will AutoZone and NAPA. They can all give you a Print-Out of the test.

Great idea. I will definitely consider this, the next time Im planning a trip into town. What Dave_Eng showed was an excellent learning tool, and your suggestion will eliminate the battery for sure, prior to further testing.
Thanks for your help.

 

[Nicfin36]

How old is your battery?

 

[lugbolt]

dave's right

voltage drop test, once you figure it out, is a godsend in figuring out electrical problems

problem is most people are skeered of electrical problems and they sometimes can get complicated

our rsr didn't even know how to do a voltage drop test at the regional tech update. We had to diag some electrical problems on lawn mowers (mostly kommanders) that were "bugged" with some sort of problem. They "taught" everyone how to use the DVOM's by doing a continuity test which can be inconclusive. Gave us a day to figure out 7 mowers, 21 of us, groups of 3 "students" each. No one group works at the same speed of course. So when one got done with their project, they had to wait for another to get through at the next station, and some of these guys are real idiots, never used a dvom but had plenty of experience with a hammer. So on lunch, the guys who were with me already had learned the drop test and how it worked, and 1 of them had made the statement to another student about how much easier it is, who then asked me, then another student, pretty soon I was teaching the kubota "teachers" how to do a drop test and they're like "hmmm....interesting...that works good". Come on guys. Thought they were supposed to be smarter'n me. Once everyone figured it out, we worked through 7 mowers in about 30 minutes' time, and went "home" (motel) early. Well not all of them went "home", some went to the adult bars, gentlemen's clubs, etc per usual for tech updates. We were all done by 2:30pm, usually out by 5:00 or so.

continuity test can be inconclusive because 1 strand of wire can show the DVOM zero resistance, as it should be, but when the wire (strand) is loaded, it won't carry enough juice, which is exactly where the drop test shines

when I learned the test, I ran out to the shop (at the house) and did drop testing across all of the connections in the race car, to find that the master shutoff switch was dropping FOUR volts across it while cranking, explains why the engine would kick back & turn slow. Explained a lot of problems actually. Found LOTS of problems!!

 

[Mudball]

How old is your battery?

Im not sure, but I purchase the tractor new on 8-22-18

dave's right

voltage drop test, once you figure it out, is a godsend in figuring out electrical problems

problem is most people are skeered of electrical problems and they sometimes can get complicated

our rsr didn't even know how to do a voltage drop test at the regional tech update. We had to diag some electrical problems on lawn mowers (mostly kommanders) that were "bugged" with some sort of problem. They "taught" everyone how to use the DVOM's by doing a continuity test which can be inconclusive. Gave us a day to figure out 7 mowers, 21 of us, groups of 3 "students" each. No one group works at the same speed of course. So when one got done with their project, they had to wait for another to get through at the next station, and some of these guys are real idiots, never used a dvom but had plenty of experience with a hammer. So on lunch, the guys who were with me already had learned the drop test and how it worked, and 1 of them had made the statement to another student about how much easier it is, who then asked me, then another student, pretty soon I was teaching the kubota "teachers" how to do a drop test and they're like "hmmm....interesting...that works good". Come on guys. Thought they were supposed to be smarter'n me. Once everyone figured it out, we worked through 7 mowers in about 30 minutes' time, and went "home" (motel) early. Well not all of them went "home", some went to the adult bars, gentlemen's clubs, etc per usual for tech updates. We were all done by 2:30pm, usually out by 5:00 or so.

continuity test can be inconclusive because 1 strand of wire can show the DVOM zero resistance, as it should be, but when the wire (strand) is loaded, it won't carry enough juice, which is exactly where the drop test shines

when I learned the test, I ran out to the shop (at the house) and did drop testing across all of the connections in the race car, to find that the master shutoff switch was dropping FOUR volts across it while cranking, explains why the engine would kick back & turn slow. Explained a lot of problems actually. Found LOTS of problems!!

Sounds very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to help.

 

[Nicfin36]

OK, so your battery is not that old.

I put a Wirthco battery disconnect on mine, I wasn't having any problems, though. (worth having for various reasons IMO) If you feel you're having a draining issue while the tractor is not being used, it could eliminate that. A band-aid fix, I know.

 

[Mudball]

OK, so your battery is not that old.

I put a Wirthco battery disconnect on mine, I wasn't having any problems, though. (worth having for various reasons IMO) If you feel you're having a draining issue while the tractor is not being used, it could eliminate that. A band-aid fix, I know.

Doesnt hurt to offer an alternative solution, and I will keep this in mind.
Thanks

 

[Nicfin36]

I will say, often times, problems turn out to be the simplest solution. The battery was going dead on my Toyota. It was about 5 years old and a Duralast Gold, supposedly their best. I expected more from it as I had two other Duralast batteries last at least 10 years. Autozone, where I bought it, "checked" it. They said it tested good. I was beginning to doubt myself, but I realized my vehicle was a Toyota and it HAD to be the battery and usually it is the battery anyway. I bought another battery.....not from them, and all was well.

I'm not saying it is your battery, but it would not surprise me if it is. I have realized that batteries are made quite crappy now.

 

[Mudball]

I will say, often times, problems turn out to be the simplest solution. The battery was going dead on my Toyota. It was about 5 years old and a Duralast Gold, supposedly their best. I expected more from it as I had two other Duralast batteries last at least 10 years. Autozone, where I bought it, "checked" it. They said it tested good. I was beginning to doubt myself, but I realized my vehicle was a Toyota and it HAD to be the battery and usually it is the battery anyway. I bought another battery.....not from them, and all was well.

I'm not saying it is your battery, but it would not surprise me if it is. I have realized that batteries are made quite crappy now.

I will definitely find out more in the next couple of weeks.
Thanks for the help.