Vernig Grapple Issue

lynnmor

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I bought a new 54" V30 Vernig grapple and I don't think it is designed quite right. While holding the grapple tines level and lowered to just touch the ground, the loaded arms dig even before the grapple tines. In this photo you will see that the tines can't be angled up slightly to keep them from cutting sod because that will cause the orange loader parts to plow.

IMG_0314.JPG
 
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edritchey

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It's a root rake grapple it's designed to run tips tilted forward into the soil.
 
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lynnmor

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It's a root rake grapple it's designed to run tips tilted forward into the soil.

Understand that, but I had tons of limbs down on the lawn and it really tore things up. I tried to keep the tines from digging and just skim over the grass, but that is all but impossible. If they would have moved the grapple down an inch or two relative to the mounting points much damage could be avoided.
 

MapleLeafFarmer

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X2 on some of the above and sometimes you have to use what you have versus what is designed for task at hand.
I think many manufacturers use the wrong words (root grapples/root rakes vs. grapple rakes)

Around here we would describe a grapple rake is what you need for the job. (not a root grapple or root rake) Where grapple rakes have tines that allows the grapple rake to actually lift materials above ground level and skim the ground with minimal damage. More or less flatter bottoms and longer tines.

You probably already tried this but would suggest you try and increase curl down much more than your pic. shows and run tines just above the ground when not wanting to disturb the ground. Skimming ground w/o damage on your design is going to take more technique due to the design.

Grapple rakes more like this less ground penetration and kinda skim the ground easier
1647484041360.png
1647484207109.png


where root grapples more ground penetrating like yours so lots of technique needed to skim.
1647484095033.png
1647484145979.png
 

NCL4701

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Picking up sticks off a lawn without damaging the lawn takes practice. Preferably practice somewhere other than a lawn. Regardless the style grapple, you have to get the tips of the teeth right down on the ground so the sticks aren’t going under it and not dig into the dirt. You can’t angle it just so and then float it without tearing up the grass, so you have to just do it with the loader controls.
 
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North Idaho Wolfman

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What everyone else is saying, root grapples don't float very well.

Back drag with the top teeth down.

One issue is that some SSQA implements are designed off of skid steer specs where the arms don't go below the implement like a tractor.
 
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lynnmor

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I still think it is a poor design. Not allowing the thing to at least stand up straight was simply an oversight. While the grapple can be stored upright, consider that the loader arms are already on the floor and can't be dropped without playing games.

While operating this is the view while leaning far forward and to the side, so it takes a better operator than me to prevent turf damage.

IMG_0315.JPG
 
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NCL4701

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I still think it is a poor design. Not allowing the thing to at least stand up straight was simply an oversight. While the grapple can be stored upright, consider that the loader arms are already on the floor and can't be dropped without playing games.

While operating this is the view while leaning far forward and to the side, so it takes a better operator than me to prevent turf damage.

View attachment 76657
Mine is a long bottom style so the lower teeth a quite a ways further forward compared to yours. Looking at the your view from the operator station, you don’t have nearly as clear a view of the teeth when empty as I do with mine. I don’t know why you couldn’t be precise with it same as you can be precise with the leading edge of a loader bucket that you can’t directly see, but that’s not to say it is at all easy.

Either style, picking up every last bit of a pile of brush off a lawn without damage is not exactly “Tractoring 101”. To get a good load off turf with my long bottom style, I have to approach with the teeth bottoms parallel to the ground about 1/2” or less above the dirt (which puts them in the grass), get under a chunk of the pile, then roll over the pile to compress and trap as much as possible under the grapple, close the lids, raise and go. Rolling over the pile requires leaving the lower teeth in the same place 1/2” or less off the ground so that requires coordinating raising the boom, curling down, and driving forward all at the same time to keep the load trapped on the tractor side. It’s either that, or use it as a cart and hand load it when on turf.
 
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CFarm45

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I still think it is a poor design. Not allowing the thing to at least stand up straight was simply an oversight. While the grapple can be stored upright, consider that the loader arms are already on the floor and can't be dropped without playing games.

While operating this is the view while leaning far forward and to the side, so it takes a better operator than me to prevent turf damage.

View attachment 76657
I agree. Looks like poor design to me. Yes, it is more of a root rake style grapple, but with greater curve in the tines than many, causing them to be forward pointing rather than the more vertically oriented tines of some rakes. One would assume you could level them to run them along the ground and roll forward a bit to dig if you like. I had seriously considered this grapple for that very reason. Sorry, I can’t offer a solution for you, but I understand your complaint and agree 100%.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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Agree with others , it's a root grapple,designed to dig, go under the roots then grab,lift go it's not a 'pick-up-stick-from manicured-lawn' grapple.

Can you 'release and store' on a skid ? I place 2 of 3 attachments on a mini farmwagon,keeps them off the ground. Might be a solution.
 

lynnmor

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It is a poor design no matter how you want to defend the company. Not having the ability to at least get the thing upright is nothing more than an oversight by the designers. It is no wonder that we have poor product design when consumers blame each other rather than think for themselves.
 

mcmxi

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It is a poor design no matter how you want to defend the company. Not having the ability to at least get the thing upright is nothing more than an oversight by the designers. It is no wonder that we have poor product design when consumers blame each other rather than think for themselves.
That grapple isn't designed for your tractor specifically right? It might work the way you expect on a different model of tractor but even that seems doubtful. I agree that it's a poor design. The distance from the underside of the lower tines to the top of the SSQA plate on your tractor is insufficient.

For all those saying that it's a root rake grapple and not designed for the lower tines to be horizontal when the loader is lowered all the way, my EA Wicked 60 will put the underside edge of the lower tines parallel to the ground with the loader all the way down. This photo doesn't quite show that but you can see that I can lower the loader another 18" or so and roll the grapple back more to keep the tines and ground parallel. Not an issue.

ea_wicked_60_24.jpg
 
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lynnmor

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That grapple isn't designed for your tractor specifically right? It might work the way you expect on a different model of tractor but even that seems doubtful. I agree that it's a poor design. The distance from the underside of the lower tines to the top of the SSQA plate on your tractor is insufficient.

For all those saying that it's a root rake grapple and not designed for the lower tines to be horizontal when the loader is lowered all the way, my EA Wicked 60 will put the underside edge of the lower tines parallel to the ground with the loader all the way down. This photo doesn't quite show that but you can see that I can lower the loader another 18" or so and roll the grapple back more to keep the tines and ground parallel. Not an issue.

View attachment 77119
Now just look at how the ends of your loader arms are well above the grapple tines, I can’t do that. The grapple needs to be mounted lower.
I contacted Virnig and they do not respond. Next I will contact Messicks to see if I can trade it for something that is designed correctly. And yes, this thing was supposed to work.
 

mcmxi

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Now just look at how the ends of your loader arms are well above the grapple tines, I can’t do that. The grapple needs to be mounted lower.
I contacted Virnig and they do not respond. Next I will contact Messicks to see if I can trade it for something that is designed correctly. And yes, this thing was supposed to work.
Like I said, I agree that it's a poor design. You wouldn't have this issue with the EA Wicked 55 which is lighter than your Vernig and the jaws open wider ... just sayin'. And the Wicked 55, 60 and 66 are root rake grapples.
 

Shekkie

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Like I said, I agree that it's a poor design. You wouldn't have this issue with the EA Wicked 55 which is lighter than your Vernig and the jaws open wider ... just sayin'. And the Wicked 55, 60 and 66 are root rake grapples.
Doesn’t this look like the same issue? If the teeth are flat to skim like they would be in this pic then the bottom of the loader arms would be in the dirt as well. To tilt the grapple forward so the arms are clear would create the same grapple digging in problem.

Unless I am seeing this pic wrong or misunderstanding the issue


98146669-2E3F-437E-87D2-5E736D116222.jpeg
 

Shekkie

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I still think it is a poor design. Not allowing the thing to at least stand up straight was simply an oversight. While the grapple can be stored upright, consider that the loader arms are already on the floor and can't be dropped without playing games.

While operating this is the view while leaning far forward and to the side, so it takes a better operator than me to prevent turf damage.

View attachment 76657
Unhook the latches before lowering all the way to the ground then tilt just a bit so the grapple pivots at the top lip away from the bottom latch area. That should get the bottom of the loader out of the way so you can lower the grapple to the ground flat. Think of it as just the reverse of how you pick it up.

Maybe not the most convenient but not a huge PITA either.
 

NCL4701

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Since you’re planning to change it out, you might consider the other style. Leveling the teeth on the long bottom style puts the loader mount plate well above the ground.
11C7D5AE-F5B0-4E88-9D49-ACC370828C2F.jpeg
 

edritchey

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It's funny how something can work so well for some people and just fail so miserably for others. I like mine and am very happy with it. I also like the company they are good people. We have been using their attachments on our Wheel loaders and skid loaders for snow removal for years and everything has hold up well.

I'm sure they will get back to the OP but I doubt there is anything they can really do to make it work the way he want's it to.
 
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lynnmor

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It's funny how something can work so well for some people and just fail so miserably for others. I like mine and am very happy with it. I also like the company they are good people. We have been using their attachments on our Wheel loaders and skid loaders for snow removal for years and everything has hold up well.

I'm sure they will get back to the OP but I doubt there is anything they can really do to make it work the way he want's it to.
Maybe you could provide a photo of the 54" grapple mounted on your B2601, I would like to see how much clearance is below the loader arms with the grapple upright.