trouble hooking up snow blade hydraulics

DaveN

New member

Equipment
B3200
Apr 15, 2013
5
0
1
Boone, NC
I took off my bucket: No problem. I attached my WR Long snow blade. Hooked up the 2 hydraulic hoses from the blade: no problem. Started the tractor. I can move the blade up and down. I swivel it to the left, but then I can not swivel it to the right. It is stuck in the left position... Any thoughts on this?
Thanks
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Staff member
Lifetime Member

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L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
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Sandpoint, ID
I assume that you are hooking up the right and left to a third function?

Sounds like you could have a stuck or bad quick connect, try swapping them and see if it works.
If it only goes to the right then you have a bad quick connect coupling!
 

Kennyd4110

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Vendor Member
Sep 7, 2013
1,164
329
83
Westminster, MD
www.boltonhooks.com
Sounds like the classic "regen" problem. Here is a short article I wrote for the GTT forum a while ago:

Regen is a "feature" of most modern FEL (Front End Loader) valves, it's on the Dump (joystick far right) circuit, and is also referred to as "Fast Dump". The reason it is nice to have is that without it, the weight of a filled bucket can actually "pull" the bucket down faster then the fluid can enter the other side of the cylinder, this will create a air pocket and give the bucket a "floppy" feeling until the joystick is held in the dump mode a few seconds to refill the cylinder pushing the air past the seals. So we add "regen" or "regenerative" function to the valve.

Regen solves this problem by actually filling both sides of the cylinder at the same time with hydraulic fluid. But how will that work you might ask? Well, because there is more volume on the side of the cylinder that extends it since the rod is taking up space in the other side, it "overpowers" the rod side and lets the cylinder extend-thereby dumping the bucket. So since now both sides of the cylinder are "pressurized", the air pocket can not develop, eliminating the "floppy" bucket syndrome. One other added bonus is that the bucket actually dumps faster due to the higher flow rate required to do all this, that's why it's referred to as "fast dump" sometimes.

So, now you may be asking “This is cool and all that, but why do I need to know about it?” The answer to that is simple, if you ever try to run a snow plow with two SA (single acting) cylinders, or a cylinder that drives a chute rotator on a snowblower you will soon find out that they won’t work if you push the joystick to far right in the regen mode. The plow won’t work because since both lines are pressurized-both cylinders will be trying to extend at the same time binding everything up. The rotator won’t work because there is no weight pushing the cylinder closed like there is on the loader.

On most, if not all John Deere tractors there is a “lockout” the limits how far the joystick travels to the right to keep it out of the regen mode.
On most newer Kubota's, you have to "push thru" the regen function to get past it (joystick full right). Some of the older models had 3-ways valves so using a plow or chute rotation is impossible
 

Kennyd4110

Well-known member
Vendor Member
Sep 7, 2013
1,164
329
83
Westminster, MD
www.boltonhooks.com
Here is another good read, posted by a Kubota mechanic on TBN many years ago:

3 position valve-vs-4 position valve
<font color=purple>I see this question come up alot, so I thought I'd make it a little more "searchable"</font color=purple>

The 3 position valve and the 4 position valve, both have what is known as a regenerative circuit built into the bucket dump circuit.

First let me explain what "regen" is and why.

When dumping a loaded bucket (with a good old fashioned loader control valve) the weight of the material in the bucket tends to pull the cylinders down faster than the hyd. fluid can fill the other side of the bucket cylinders. Therefore, an air pocket will develop in the cylinder causing the bucket to be a little "floppy" unless held against relief for a few seconds at the end of the dump cycle. Which creates an extra step if you want to back-drag, etc.

To solve this problem we now add a regenerative (regen) circuit into the dump function of the loader control valve.

What is "regen"? The dump function of the loader control valve applies hyd. "power" to both sides of the bucket cylinders at the same time. But Kubmech, how the heck is that going to work? Wont the cylinder just lock up and not move? No, because on one side of the cylinder the rod itself takes up space, decreasing the volume of the cylinder, on the other side of the cylinder piston there is, no rod, creating more volume. PSI=pounds per square inch, the more volume the more square inches to apply pounds, get it? O.K. so the back side of the cylinder overcomes the front side of the cyl. due to more volume and at the same time does not allow an air pocket to develop becuase of the added resistence of "hyd. power" to the front side of the cyl. allowing the cylinder to "stay tight" for subsequent operations. And as an added bonus it tends to dump faster due to the higher amount of flow/pressure to perform this operation. (Hence the "fast dump" mode the salesmen love to tell you about) In actuality the "fast dump"
mode is just derivative of the regen circuit.

Soooo..... What's the difference between 3-pos. and 4-pos. valves, besides about 35 bucks.

The 3-pos. valve has regen in the dump mode period. The problem with regen is if you want to add, say a snow plow, with power angle running off of the loader control valve, the power angle works off of single acting cylinders. With "hyd. power" being supplied to both sides of the cylinder, you will only be able to angle in one direction and that's it. (back to the whole volume-vs-psi thing again).

The 4-pos. valve has a detented position. When moving the control lever to the right, to dump (or power angle right in the case of the plow) if you choose the first detented position this is the non-regen position and will work just like the good old fashion loader control valve. If you apply a little more pressure on the control lever you will push past the detented position and move into the regen position. Thus, if you have the 4-pos. valve and want to avoid the floppy bucket syndrome you have to push full right to engage regen.

So the bottom line is; both the newer 3-pos. and 4-pos valves have the "fast dump" option. The difference is, do you want to add options to your front loader without having to add an aux valve to you're tractor or not?
 

Kubota_Man

Member

Equipment
BX24, Rear blade, Front blade, Snowblower, 54" MMM, Box scraper, Landscape rake
Dec 25, 2010
953
2
16
Kellogg, Idaho
Try pushing the joystick beyond what you think it will go to the right. On my BX24 there is a detent on the right once you go past the detent everything works like it id supposed to. Please keep in mind that is the case on my tractor and yours may be set up different.
 

Var

New member
Oct 26, 2020
3
2
3
BC
Hi all,

Sorry to necro an old thread, but I'm having exactly this problem.
The explanation of the regen is probably the best explanation I've seen so far for this issue as it completely fits the symptoms I'm having. Push slowly right, and it'll turn the blade, push a little farther, and it stops.

Still, I have another question. My snow blade didn't do this originally, it only started part way through last winter. Why would it start doing this suddenly?

One of the couplings (on the snow blade hose side) doesn't seal properly when disconnected (as in, it spurts out oil). I don't understand if/why that would make a difference though. But I see coupling issue was the first suggested fix.

Guess if it's the coupling, I'm hoping someone can help me understand how that affects it. I thought once connected, the couplings are always open for oil flow regardless..?

If it's not the coupling, what else would make this suddenly start happening?

Thank you!
 

Var

New member
Oct 26, 2020
3
2
3
BC
A bad coupling can act like a "check valve", so if you have a notably bad one get it replaced and see if that fixes you're issues.
Ok, I'll give that a go as soon as I can get to town to get some replacement couplings. Thanks!
I hadn't noticed it was bad until I went to hook it up this winter. I had the hoses reversed when I first put them on (right and left reversed). When I disconnected it put it the right way, it spurted out a bunch of oil and it was visibly not sealed on the snow blade side.
 
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Var

New member
Oct 26, 2020
3
2
3
BC
A bad coupling can act like a "check valve", so if you have a notably bad one get it replaced and see if that fixes you're issues.
I got a replacement coupling yesterday and installed it. Seems to be working great again now!
Thanks again!
 
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