Top 'n Tilt on a BX Tractor

[itsaz]

I'd really like to add a T 'n T kit to my BX 2670-1, but before I spend $2500, I have some questions.

First, does it make hooking up implements more difficult? It would seem that I'd be fighting the check valves to move the cylinders enough to engage the pins (I'm not using a Quick Hitch). Also, are the hydraulic hoses gonna get in the way when trying to hook up a PTO shaft?

Second, how do I deal with the check chain assemblies when using the tilt feature? The distance between the lower links is going to increase as the tilt is increased, so I can't just adjust the check chains to prevent the implement from swaying side to side when level, then expect them to not restrict how much I can tilt. Removing the check chains altogether would allow a box blade, or any implement for that matter, to swing wildly from side to side regardless of the degree of tilt.

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I'd sure like to hear from a BX owner who has a T 'n T kit installed. Thanks in advance.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

As a note, installing the T&T kit advertised as a "perfect fit for your application" could be anything but that on a BX. I ordered a T&T for my BX from Summit Hydraulics after noting the OEM tractor and rear remotes via e-mail, followed by a phone call from them to confirm the details, and after a 1-year wait for the order to ship not one part fits. Not one. I figured it's an OEM setup, how hard can it be? Well, it's a sub-compact tractor and T&T isn't nearly as common as on a bigger tractor.

Service before the sale was awesome, after the sale...nothing. Recently Summit has a new front office staff so there were likely serious problems previously, now they seem much, much better and have offered to refund parts that absolutely won't work, but getting the rest working is on me. Not to rip them, just lay out you might be in for a project on a BX, and you might just want cylinders from them and not a kit. Their parts are high-quality Asian-made, but expensive for Made In China, so you can get the same hoses and fittings for 1/5 the price elsewhere, though the BX Tilt cylinder is custom and you're likely getting it from them, fabricating the lower coupling yourself, or paying 50% more for a non-China cylinder with lower link from another company. The day I was going to cancel my order with Summit and get a U.S.-made side cylinder with twice the travel the Summit kit showed up unannounced, so I continued down that path.

I'll post the pictures and details when the T&T actually works, but since I had to learn hydraulics for this project my confidence level in this working right the first time is shaky.

I can't say this is all that's necessary but so far:
- I had to narrow the Top cylinder bushing by about 1/8" to fit the BX, there was no way it was going to work otherwise.
- Hydraulic fittings and hoses for the top arrived from another vendor yesterday, Summit has parts available that would work but not as well and at 4-5x the price.
- Faster & Stucchi couplings arrived from last week. I want quality couplings that will last, but it's a BX so Chinese couplings would probably be fine.
- A longer clevis pin for the side cylinder is needed, that one was fun to source.
- The side DPOCV they sent is for their valves and has to be exchanged for one that will work with OEM valves; I'm waiting until this weekend to first see how good my hydraulic education turned out before tackling the side plumbing as it's more involved.

To address your tilt check valve concerns, quick-connects and a pressure release valve can be added so the valve body, which on the BX is separate from the tilt cylinder, can be removed from the circuit as needed. The Top cylinder has the DPOCV integrated as there's space for it.

I'll know more this weekend when I start plumbing parts in...

 

[Henro]

I'd really like to add a T 'n T kit to my BX 2670-1, but before I spend $2500, I have some questions.

First, does it make hooking up implements more difficult? It would seem that I'd be fighting the check valves to move the cylinders enough to engage the pins (I'm not using a Quick Hitch). Also, are the hydraulic hoses gonna get in the way when trying to hook up a PTO shaft?

Second, how do I deal with the check chain assemblies when using the tilt feature? The distance between the lower links is going to increase as the tilt is increased, so I can't just adjust the check chains to prevent the implement from swaying side to side when level, then expect them to not restrict how much I can tilt. Removing the check chains altogether would allow a box blade, or any implement for that matter, to swing wildly from side to side regardless of the degree of tilt.

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I'd sure like to hear from a BX owner who has a T 'n T kit installed. Thanks in advance.

I don’t have a top until on my BX but I do have one on my B 2910. I think the answers to some of your questions are the same regardless of the difference in tractor size that I have

For me the top and tilt makes hook up of implements easier. That’s because you can move the cylinders slightly, or as much as you want, so that you can align the holes easily for insertion of the pins. You don’t fight the check valves if they’re pilot-operated check valves. I’ve not noticed any jerkiness or anything with my setup. My check valves are in my control valves and not mounted on the cylinders but I don’t imagine that makes any difference.

I personally haven’t noticed an issue with hydraulic hoses getting in the way of the PTO shaft on my B 2910 but can’t really voice an opinion or experience on the smaller tractor. My guess is if you did have a concern you could use a bungee cord to hold the hose away from the shaft.

The check chain question has not been an issue for me, since with the B tractor the set up is such that there’s always a bit of slop. On my BX I somehow damaged one of those adjustable check chain equivalent pieces (whatever they’re called) and now I just use regular chain which inherently gives me a fair amount of slop there as well. I suppose if you are tightening your adjusters so much that you have no sway in the rear implement then tilting could be an issue as far as stress on the adjusters goes.

Also remember that with BX your lift height is limited. So you don’t want to do anything to shorten the amount of lift that you have to begin with. On my B2910 I actually ended up using two 4-inch stroke cylinders rather than one 8 inch cylinder, in order to gain a little bit of three point hitch lift when the implement is horizontal. Doing this required one more control valve though. On my BX I actually drilled new holes higher in the bottom of the lift rods to gain a little bit more lift.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

This update has been a long time in coming: Yup.


Here's where I left off last year: The top cylinder was kind of a bugger to get in for the reasons mentioned, and the instructions were wrong and they shipped the wrong fittings, so it was a cluster-duck, but eventually it went in and leaked (lots). Then I sourced new fittings from a different vendor and different hoses and eventually figured it out.

So that meant I had this:


And that's pretty handy, but I still wanted to drop an implement in the woods and have power tilt to pick it back up, so...a few parts later...


...and all I'm missing are some bolts.


So, I looked at the specs and the holes are 0.41", so a 3/8" bolt should fit.
Which it does not.

So I found 5/16" stainless and leaned on the drill, resulting in some awesomeness:



It works, no leaks (for once), ...well, other than when I used the wrong fittings on the Double Pilot Operated Check Valve, which should have been a Single Pilot if I had found one.

Does it work: Yup.
Does it work Well: Eh. It's pretty fast and could use a flow limiter to make things sensible. BUT, I can now throw things way off kitler faster than the rate of comprehending I hit the wrong leaver.

And it's cool as snot in winter.

 

[Russell King]

You may want to look at these velcr straps to manage the hoses if they bother you being loose.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N6VG9YY?ref=clp_hp_h_pc&th=1

There are many different sizes.

Some people use tywraps but i prefer something a bit softer at the edges.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

You may want to look at these vel straps to manage the hoses if they bother you being loose.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N6VG9YY?ref=clp_hp_h_pc&th=1

There are many different sizes.

Some people use tywraps but i prefer something a bit softer at the edges.

That's a great point. I've held off on buying some sort of protective cover as getting all that to work and stay working was an adventure, made much easier by the hydraulic gurus here at OTT.

The hoses are short because "tight is right"--except when it comes to hydraulics. Generally it's better to have longer hoses so "extra" is available when things move around (like lifting/lowering implements). Minimizing hose flex and twist is important, especially the twist because hoses can unscrew themselves and start squirting hydraulic fluid like they're firemen manning a hose. Flex is no joke eather as too much can prematurely wear the hose.

The issue with the BX is it's a relatively small tractor for the amount of implement movement: lifting a flail mower 6" on an MX is (to the tractor size and hose length) proportionally much less than on a BX. So on an LX or MX the hoses would be long and not need to flex much compared to a BX where hoses are short because distances between stuff is much less. Ideally one would want the same hose length on a BX as on an MX because lifting 6" is lifting 6", however the short distances between tractor and implement mean there would be lots of hose to get caught up where there's not a lot of room.

Wanting short hoses and clean plumbing created a bunch of design concerns, and I'm surprised the Top cylinder hoses don't unscrew themselves, but that orientation and twist was all figured out via fluid loss--so far it has stayed tight, but I've two longer hoses "just in case." Every fitting was chosen specifically to keep things short, clean, and out of the way as much as practical. One thing I learned with air fittings: less is better because each has the opportunity to leak, and hydraulics are the same in that regard, hence the workbench full of fittings to see what best fits the application.

Some changes should still be made, the DPOCV is overkill--that should be a Single as there's no down-force on a 3-point (it floats), and plumbing in a flow limiter on the Tilt would be welcome.

What a relief that's "done" and working; much more flexibility and less monkeying around when changing implements.