To 4WD or Not To 4WD

DDCD

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May 8, 2021
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Plus 1 on all of that. A 110 foot long and level driveway is pretty simple work. Right now around here I can't get the stone for that - more like $500 for a tandem load delivered.

Dan
I'm lucky enough to have 4 blue limestone quarries within 3 miles of my place. I put the geoGRID down on a wet spot and filled it in with gravel. Poor man's road. Haven't lost any due to sinking.
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HVACRoger

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Wilson, NC
To answer your 2 vs 4wd question, I'd recommend you work it both ways. After some seat time in each you will develop a sense of when 4wd is beneficial and when it is a hindrance. It will also give you a better feel for how much you can push/pull without breaking traction. There is a lever to put it into and out of 4wd for a reason ;) Play with it and have fun.
Makes sense, I definitely have no seat time on it, dealer brought it to me with 9/10 of hour on it and I have put 1/2 hour on it so far. Figure if I do this project there will be a lot of learning moments / seat time with it.
 

HVACRoger

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Have you considered a concrete apron at the garage and then a gravel driveway? No idea how much drive length you are talking about for the $17000
With all the responses and information I have garnered from this post, there are lots of options I never thought of, so considerations abound!
 

HVACRoger

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Assuming 20' width that's roughly 30 yards of concrete flat work - 3 ready mix trucks and a days labor should easily do the deal. Maybe another day to remove the old, form it up , and put down gravel and wire. How the heck did they get $17K out of that?

Dan
Building is 24' x 36', existing drive is 8' wide at street. Estimate for drive was to go 30' wide at garage back 20' then taper to 12' wide to the street. My only guess for the cost is that all types of contractors there are slammed with work from the hurricane in 2018 to the booming economy in house industry.
 

HVACRoger

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1. You want geoGRID not fabric. Fabric is for weeds or soil separation between different types of soil/rock.
2.you want 1.5" crusher run as a base. I spread 150 tons of it with a 2WD geared tractor.
3. Rain will compact it down and make it like concrete.

I would get it delivered by a dump truck. I pay $240 for 18 tons delivered. You should not be buying it in bags for a driveway of that size.

Lastly make sure all organics/topsoil is removed or you will suffer with spraying for weeds for eternity.
Damn sure don't want to spend my time spraying for weeds. Primary residence has 2 acres, do enough of that there.
 
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HVACRoger

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Times must be good where you live. Around here I could have my choice of half a dozen local boys with a hoe and dump truck to to rip out that little slab. Same for a crew to pour and finish it if I wanted to spread the stone and lay the wire myself. Here is the crew that poured and finished the footings, piers, and slab for my shop. All hired in person over a cup of coffee at the local gas station where they congregate. I put down the stone, wire, forms , paid them double what they get working for a GC, and provided the refreshments when finished. The slab pour was a biscuit under 40 yards @ $100/yd. so a little bigger than that driveway.

Dan

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Not here and if you do hire someone that is inexpensive, or I thought reasonable you might as well bend over!!
 

HVACRoger

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You guys are awesome!! Love all the responses, you all have given me so many choices and with my lack of experience working a modern tractor with implements, I really appreciate the operation advice. I could not give you guys advise pertaining to Kubota or most of the things I have seen asked on this site but what you guys have given me so far is phenomenal. I should pay the $60 account upgrade to support this site. It has given me a 1000 time more in value in the last year, starting with guiding me to the proper tractor choice.
I will post pictures of my finished exterior on the building for those that are curious. Have completed wiring it, inspector is great guy, and have insulated it. Hoping to hang sheetrock soon and install ductless hvac system. I have scheduled for an estimate for asphalt. Will keep everyone informed on the progress outside
 

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TheOldHokie

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I have scheduled for an estimate for asphalt. Will keep everyone informed on the progress outside
Get more than one if you can to keep them honest. Its a small job so I will go out on a limb and say $4/SF for one course 3" thick. That's double what I paid for my lane which is 20 times more material than you need.

Dan
 

NCL4701

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You guys are awesome!! Love all the responses, you all have given me so many choices and with my lack of experience working a modern tractor with implements, I really appreciate the operation advice. I could not give you guys advise pertaining to Kubota or most of the things I have seen asked on this site but what you guys have given me so far is phenomenal. I should pay the $60 account upgrade to support this site. It has given me a 1000 time more in value in the last year, starting with guiding me to the proper tractor choice.
I will post pictures of my finished exterior on the building for those that are curious. Have completed wiring it, inspector is great guy, and have insulated it. Hoping to hang sheetrock soon and install ductless hvac system. I have scheduled for an estimate for asphalt. Will keep everyone informed on the progress outside
In this area, and I know I’m in Kernersville, not Wilson, it was running around $5 to $6/SF last fall. With the concrete involved in part of it and having to put a base down for part of it, that could vary but that’s a ballpark of what it costs here. Don’t know what material price increases may have gone on with asphalt since then.
 

eipo

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I must say my wife suggested laying the stone the way you suggest. I suggested doing it the way explained because of the small stones sticking in the tire treads and tracking into my garage (soon to be coated / sealed floors, another $5K) and out the driveway. Good points, didn't think about the sharpe turning.
The reason for laying the larger aggregate down first is for drainage.

By giving water a place to quickly sieve through the finer aggregate, you are better set up to avoid pot holes. Youll have less heave when things freeze and larger aggregate is less likely to push into soft soils below it and turn to mush.

If you really are concerned with tracking, which is a valid issue, Start with a layer of 2-3" stone and top dress with something around 3/4. Skip the fines.
 
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TheOldHokie

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In this area, and I know I’m in Kernersville, not Wilson, it was running around $5 to $6/SF last fall. With the concrete involved in part of it and having to put a base down for part of it, that could vary but that’s a ballpark of what it costs here. Don’t know what material price increases may have gone on with asphalt since then.
I hope that number is local to you. I have about 5000 sf of good gravel base to pave come summer and was thinking about having the lane top coated at the same time. BTW - Wilson CC is one of my favorite courses in that area and they always treat us great.

Dan
 
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rc51stierhoff

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Depending on your area, you might also use geotextile fabric. I also think a bigger base is a good idea, but you need some way to pack it.

I'm almost never in 2wheel in the tractor, but I run the Polaris Ranger in 2/1 wheel almost all of the time. Today, I was in 4wd with chains on 4 wheels pushing the snow edge over farther now that it melted a bit. I also had to use the diff lock for part of that to push uphill.

If my property was flat, I might use 2wd more, but then, I probably would have bought a 2wd tractor.
Regarding the drivetrain and the health of it…in general the simplest explaination is that too much traction is really only issue when turning…you’ll know, you’ll feel it. In that case you need to unwind it…that means after you straighten out drive forward a little let it settle. 4WD needs some wheel slippage or it can sort of bind up…that’s when you feel it…then when you straighten the wheel and drive just a little it should release the tension. If you feel it bind up you’ll know ther is too much traction and then don’t use the 4WD the next time in same situation. I hope this helps.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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In '77 ,helped friend build his 700' driveway. Once dozed level(ish)..we laid a layer of grinding wheels down, then truckloads of 3/4minus (driveway bedding material..different names in different places. He's only 'top dressed' it 2 or 3 times since them.
The grinding wheels were about 4' in diameter, used ones from car coil spring company. They got really,really heavy after laying 500+ feet of them.
 

GeoHorn

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For the base you might consider something more like ABC unwashed crush run. That would give you a mixture of 4” all the way down to fines. Some quarries call it “road base”.….
“ABC Crush and Run” might be very good for a driveway…. but in my neck-of-the-woods the quarries refer to a similar product made out of broken limestone as “road base” and it’s horrible stuff….. Yes, it’s used for ”road base” all right…. RAIl road base to hold rail ties… not to withstand automobile tires. Auto tires continually crush it into Dust… and the wind blows it into the pastures where it ruins the teeth of horses and livestock shortening their lives considerably. It also ends up inside the house despite closed doors and windows and settles onto every surface. Eventually after a few years it is gone completely and the road needs work all over again.

A much better product for a driveway in my opinion is “decomposed granite”….or 1”-minus (which contains the “fines”) granite gravel which compacts firmly and when wet compacts even more until it absolutely will not wash-away and does not create dust.
 

HVACRoger

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Dec 20, 2021
174
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I hope that number is local to you. I have about 5000 sf of good gravel base to pave come summer and was thinking about having the lane top coated at the same time. BTW - Wilson CC is one of my favorite courses in that area and they always treat us great.

Dan
Get some great bbq at Parkers also! I stay a mile from Willow Springs course
 

HVACRoger

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In '77 ,helped friend build his 700' driveway. Once dozed level(ish)..we laid a layer of grinding wheels down, then truckloads of 3/4minus (driveway bedding material..different names in different places. He's only 'top dressed' it 2 or 3 times since them.
The grinding wheels were about 4' in diameter, used ones from car coil spring company. They got really,really heavy after laying 500+ feet of them.
That’s sounds like a lot of work!
 

HVACRoger

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174
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“ABC Crush and Run” might be very good for a driveway…. but in my neck-of-the-woods the quarries refer to a similar product made out of broken limestone as “road base” and it’s horrible stuff….. Yes, it’s used for ”road base” all right…. RAIl road base to hold rail ties… not to withstand automobile tires. Auto tires continually crush it into Dust… and the wind blows it into the pastures where it ruins the teeth of horses and livestock shortening their lives considerably. It also ends up inside the house despite closed doors and windows and settles onto every surface. Eventually after a few years it is gone completely and the road needs work all over again.

A much better product for a driveway in my opinion is “decomposed granite”….or 1”-minus (which contains the “fines”) granite gravel which compacts firmly and when wet compacts even more until it absolutely will not wash-away and does not create dust.
I will be checking what’s available in my area’s. Thanks for the info!!
 

HVACRoger

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In this area, and I know I’m in Kernersville, not Wilson, it was running around $5 to $6/SF last fall. With the concrete involved in part of it and having to put a base down for part of it, that could vary but that’s a ballpark of what it costs here. Don’t know what material price increases may have gone on with asphalt since then.
That is less than the concrete cost, have an asphalt company close to me here in Wilson that did my neighbors body shop drive and lot. Looks good but he said it cost him a small fortune to have it treated / coated every couple years to maintain it. Here I have a circle drive in front of my house that about 150’ long and ties into my company drive next to my home that is 125’ long. Going to see if they will give me an estimate, compare it to the company at the coast.
 

NCL4701

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Central Piedmont, NC
“ABC Crush and Run” might be very good for a driveway…. but in my neck-of-the-woods the quarries refer to a similar product made out of broken limestone as “road base” and it’s horrible stuff….. Yes, it’s used for ”road base” all right…. RAIl road base to hold rail ties… not to withstand automobile tires. Auto tires continually crush it into Dust… and the wind blows it into the pastures where it ruins the teeth of horses and livestock shortening their lives considerably. It also ends up inside the house despite closed doors and windows and settles onto every surface. Eventually after a few years it is gone completely and the road needs work all over again.

A much better product for a driveway in my opinion is “decomposed granite”….or 1”-minus (which contains the “fines”) granite gravel which compacts firmly and when wet compacts even more until it absolutely will not wash-away and does not create dust.
Yeah, we don’t really have limestone for gravel here. All granite. And I definitely agree if granite with fines (I would think anything with fines, but could be wrong) is used as a top layer the fines in it tend to be slick when wet, dusty when dry, and wash in heavy rain so it doesn’t perform adequately as a top layer. Not very useful for anything but a base with a washed or at least graded rock on top which keeps the fines in it from blowing, washing, or tracking anywhere. The decomposed granite you describe sounds like what our local quarries call road base/ABC unwashed except the ABC has larger rock mixed in as well.

So far as limestone or chirt rock or any other varieties of “gravel” used in various areas of the country/world I have no experience or practical working knowledge of the differences working with them v granite. I have seen roads near the NC and SC coast built with seashells instead of gravel; no clue how to do that.

The base soil type may make a difference as well. My experience is limited to the clay and rocky soils in central and western NC and the sandy soils in eastern NC. I do know how to build a road with granite in those soil types. (And honestly, that’s pretty much all I know about road building.)
 
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OrangeKrush

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BX2680, LA344 with Piranha tooth bar, LP PF 1242, LP Rear Blade, KK 60" BB
Nov 15, 2020
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Indy
My driveway is concrete and is starting to disintegrate pretty bad close to the road. It's starting to crack in quite a few spots. It would cost me a fortune to have someone tear it out and dispose of it. I thought the same thing with asphalt over it but I spoke to a couple companies and the road crew doing our street. They all told me anywhere I have a crack the asphalt would crack above it. 😏