Switching from Pioneer to Flat Face

The Evil Twin

Active member

Equipment
L2501
Jul 19, 2022
208
146
43
Virginia
Hey all,
I've searched here and elsewhere but couldn't find what I was looking for. So forgive me if I overlooked the info.
I have the LP 3rd function kit on my tractor. What I thought was going to be Flat Face connectors are the Pioneer/ poppet style. My neighbor has a grapple he is letting me use for a bit (it's a tad heavy but I've got a lot of brush to get rid of) and it has the Flat Face to match his track loader. So my questions for you folks:
- Thought about just replacing the ones on the tractor. Since the LP Flat Face connectors to replace my Pioneer are $$$, can/ should I use an adapter?
- Aftermarket options? Where to buy quality Flat Face that will connect to the LP kit/ mount?
-Swap out the connectors on his grapple then swap them out when I'm done? They appear to be a flare fitting. Would that be a cheaper option than installing Flat ones on my tractor?

I understand the FF flow more but I highly doubt I'll have a front impliment that needs it. I'm new to this kind of thing so I want to make sure I get the right thing. Buy once, cry once. Thanks all!
 

pokey1416

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
Grand L4060HSTC, BH92 Backhoe, HLA Snow Pusher, Dirt Dog Tiller, EA DiscHarrow,
Jun 24, 2020
396
447
63
SW Michigan
Oh boy you opened up a debate. If I remember correctly the FF don’t drip like the ag’s but the FF are a bear to connect if there is excess pressure in the lines.

Somebody will correct me if I’m wrong. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Motion

Active member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
Kubota MX5100HST/FEL
Aug 17, 2020
379
159
43
Mandeville Louisiana
If you convert ensure to get the correct match and size as your neighbor's. I'm a little picky but I'd question the type of fluid he uses and how many other friends uses his grapple. "Neither a borrower nor a lender be"
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

The Evil Twin

Active member

Equipment
L2501
Jul 19, 2022
208
146
43
Virginia
If you convert ensure to get the correct match and size as your neighbor's. I'm a little picky but I'd question the type of fluid he uses and how many other friends uses his grapple. "Neither a borrower nor a lender be"
That's a good point. He is the only one to use this grapple. He got a larger one which is why this one is not being used. He has a TL10 and it uses 10w30 (SUDT2 is equivalent to 10w20 I believe). It's cleaner than a whistle, but I'm still going to drain what I can.
 

DustyRusty

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23S
Nov 8, 2015
2,251
1,448
113
North East
I purchased Summit flat-faced couplers from Amazon for my BX23S. A lot less expensive than Kubota and just as good in my opinion. When you purchase them in pairs, they come with rubber caps also.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

The Evil Twin

Active member

Equipment
L2501
Jul 19, 2022
208
146
43
Virginia
I purchased Summit flat-faced couplers from Amazon for my BX23S. A lot less expensive than Kubota and just as good in my opinion. When you purchase them in pairs, they come with rubber caps also.
So they threaded right on to where they were mounted from the factory? It appears I'm wrong about where the threads are in that assembly. I'll have to take a closer look tonight.
Also, because I'm a newbie to this, is the size (1/2, 3/4, etc) referencing the male/ female connector size or the threaded connection for the line?
To further complicate my decision on the questions I have... his are not the CUP Flats. I've read that these are the way to go because relieving pressure is a mess and hassle. I had no idea they had different flat style.
 

fried1765

Well-known member

Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
1,666
1,178
113
Eastham, Ma
Hey all,
I've searched here and elsewhere but couldn't find what I was looking for. So forgive me if I overlooked the info.
I have the LP 3rd function kit on my tractor. What I thought was going to be Flat Face connectors are the Pioneer/ poppet style. My neighbor has a grapple he is letting me use for a bit (it's a tad heavy but I've got a lot of brush to get rid of) and it has the Flat Face to match his track loader. So my questions for you folks:
- Thought about just replacing the ones on the tractor. Since the LP Flat Face connectors to replace my Pioneer are $$$, can/ should I use an adapter?
- Aftermarket options? Where to buy quality Flat Face that will connect to the LP kit/ mount?
-Swap out the connectors on his grapple then swap them out when I'm done? They appear to be a flare fitting. Would that be a cheaper option than installing Flat ones on my tractor?

I understand the FF flow more but I highly doubt I'll have a front impliment that needs it. I'm new to this kind of thing so I want to make sure I get the right thing. Buy once, cry once. Thanks all!
I bought a new grapple that came with flat face connectors.
My tractor has a 3rd function and three rear remotes, all being pioneer style.
I changed my new grapple connectors to pioneer, as they do seem more usable with my arthritic hands.
From an old post here on OTT, I modified a pair of welders vise grips, to assist opening the pioneer couplers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

TheOldHokie

Well-known member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
2,834
1,307
113
Myersville, MD
So they threaded right on to where they were mounted from the factory? It appears I'm wrong about where the threads are in that assembly. I'll have to take a closer look tonight.
Also, because I'm a newbie to this, is the size (1/2, 3/4, etc) referencing the male/ female connector size or the threaded connection for the line?
To further complicate my decision on the questions I have... his are not the CUP Flats. I've read that these are the way to go because relieving pressure is a mess and hassle. I had no idea they had different flat style.
Pioneer makes all sorts of couplers including flat face, Agricultural couplers are ISO 5675.

The coupler size is what is called the body size and generally reflects the flow rating of the coupler. - e.g. 1/2" body is a match for 1/2" hose. The actual threads on the body can be just about anything and a 1/2" body can be used with any size hose. Your tractor flows 6 GPM and does not need a 1/2" coupler.

Dan
 

dvcochran

Active member

Equipment
Kubota M9000, New Holland TN90, Deere 2640, Vermeer 504N, Vermeer 504SI, more
Feb 23, 2011
179
34
28
Dickson, TN
Pokey1416 is correct. Less drips with flat faced fittings. Especially when hooking up heavy equipment that is harder to 'fudge' and get the pressure relieved, flat faced fittings can be a real bear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

The Evil Twin

Active member

Equipment
L2501
Jul 19, 2022
208
146
43
Virginia
Pioneer makes all sorts of couplers including flat face, Agricultural couplers are ISO 5675.

The coupler size is what is called the body size and generally reflects the flow rating of the coupler. - e.g. 1/2" body is a match for 1/2" hose. The actual threads on the body can be just about anything and a 1/2" body can be used with any size hose. Your tractor flows 6 GPM and does not need a 1/2" coupler.

Dan
Thanks for that. I understand the size may be for more flow than i need, but im just trying to match the couplers to get some work done.
So where would I measure these couplers to determine what size FF that I need?
20220917_173823.jpg
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
2,834
1,307
113
Myersville, MD
Thanks for that. I understand the size may be for more flow than i need, but im just trying to match the couplers to get some work done.
So where would I measure these couplers to determine what size FF that I need?
View attachment 87376
You have Stauff QRC couplers - the size is stamped on the coupler body. Probably -08 which is 1/2".

Dan
 

The Evil Twin

Active member

Equipment
L2501
Jul 19, 2022
208
146
43
Virginia
This may be a dup
You have Stauff QRC couplers - the size is stamped on the coupler body. Probably -08 which is 1/2".

Dan
This may be a duplicate post. I live in the sticks and cell service is miserable at best.
I think it says -12 but hard to read in the dark with a flashlight.
Looking at their website (don't know why it didn't come up in a search yesterday) it seems that in addition to the FF fittings, I would also likely need bulkhead connectors also. Ugh. Can't be simple. Or inexpensive. But the two never seem to go together. Lol.
Now I'm thinking it would be easier to buy Pioneer fittings for the grapple. Or adapter fittings. Although I don't much like the idea of another connection point.
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
2,834
1,307
113
Myersville, MD
This may be a dup

This may be a duplicate post. I live in the sticks and cell service is miserable at best.
I think it says -12 but hard to read in the dark with a flashlight.
Looking at their website (don't know why it didn't come up in a search yesterday) it seems that in addition to the FF fittings, I would also likely need bulkhead connectors also. Ugh. Can't be simple. Or inexpensive. But the two never seem to go together. Lol.
Now I'm thinking it would be easier to buy Pioneer fittings for the grapple. Or adapter fittings. Although I don't much like the idea of another connection point.
If -12 they are 3/4 inch body size which would be appropriate for a high flow skidsteer but massive overkill on a 6 GPM tractor. Switching your tractor to 3/4" FF is simple but expensive both now and down the road. ISO 5675 couplers are much less expensive and work just fine.

The hoses look like they have JIC swivel ends. If you really want FF couplers on your tractor buy two sets of 3/8" (-06) couplers from Summit.


Install one set on your loader and use the other set to swap the -12 couplers on the grapple out. When done put the -12 couplers back on the borrowed grapple and keep the -06 set for use on your grapple

Dan
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

The Evil Twin

Active member

Equipment
L2501
Jul 19, 2022
208
146
43
Virginia
If -12 they are 3/4 inch body size which would be appropriate for a high flow skidsteer but massive overkill on a 6 GPM tractor. Switching your tractor to 3/4" FF is simple but expensive both now and down the road. ISO 5675 couplers are much less expensive and work just fine.

The hoses look like they have JIC swivel ends. If you really want FF couplers on your tractor buy two sets of 3/8" (-06) couplers from Summit.


Install one set on your loader and use the other set to swap the -12 couplers on the grapple out. When done put the -12 couplers back on the borrowed grapple and keep the -06 set for use on your grapple

Dan
This has been most helpful! And gave me a new direction to think! You are absolutely correct in that once I swap mine to match his, I'll have to pay more for every attachment I buy.
I couldn't find them on Summit but I found these which I think I could swap onto the grapple. Then I wouldn't have to change anything on the tractor and would just drop his FF back on later. According to Stauff (second link down) they are the same 3/4- 16 thread although they say UNF thread. The ones in the link are called out as ORB, but if I vaguely remember that's the same‐ no taper o ring sealed. I'm going to call them to confirm.

Stauff part
 

The Evil Twin

Active member

Equipment
L2501
Jul 19, 2022
208
146
43
Virginia
I had a similar coupler issue. I purchased these and they work great. Adapter
I had seen those elsewhere and gave it a thought. My only hesitation is the added length. I may have to relocate my bulkhead to the back side of the cross bar. Or maybe point it straight down to fit. Seeing these are Amazon, if they are too long then returns are easy! Thank you!!
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
2,834
1,307
113
Myersville, MD
This has been most helpful! And gave me a new direction to think! You are absolutely correct in that once I swap mine to match his, I'll have to pay more for every attachment I buy.
I couldn't find them on Summit but I found these which I think I could swap onto the grapple. Then I wouldn't have to change anything on the tractor and would just drop his FF back on later. According to Stauff (second link down) they are the same 3/4- 16 thread although they say UNF thread. The ones in the link are called out as ORB, but if I vaguely remember that's the same‐ no taper o ring sealed. I'm going to call them to confirm.

Stauff part
ALL 1/2" (-08) SAE oring boss (ORB) fittings have 3/4-16 UNF threads.

Here is a link to Summits 3/8 flat face couplers with 1/2" ORB ports. Their description is a bit confusing but the part drawing is not.


Here are their 1/2" ISO 7241-A couplers with the same ports. The half inch body size ISO 7241-A and ISO 5675 couplers will interchange. Other body sizes do not. Just FYI all of the 3/8" Kubota (actually Faster) couplers on your loader are ISO 7241-B and will not interchange with anything else.


Dan
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

The Evil Twin

Active member

Equipment
L2501
Jul 19, 2022
208
146
43
Virginia
I did see the Ag fittings on Summit but they all seem to be NPT thread.
Just FYI all of the 3/8" Kubota (actually Faster) couplers on your loader are ISO 7241-B and will not interchange with anything else.
So, they are-B? They sure do look like -A on mine. Definitely not a angled collar.
IMG_0331.jpg
20220921_152622.jpg
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
2,834
1,307
113
Myersville, MD
I did see the Ag fittings on Summit but they all seem to be NPT thread.

So, they are-B? They sure do look like -A on mine. Definitely not a angled collar. View attachment 87482 View attachment 87483
Summit has a good selection of couplers with ORB ports plus exceptionally good prices, no sales tax, and free shipping.

All I can tell you is the Kubota couplers on my LA525 (which I assume is what you have) are Faster HNV's which are definitly ISO 7241-B. Quite common on mobil equipment. Third party couplers like Land Pride are often ISO 5675.

Regardless of that ISO A couplers (7241-A) will only interchange with ISO 5675 (what you want to call Pioneer) in the 1/2" body size. If they are in fact ISO A they will onliy interchange with another ISO A coupler. They will not interchange with a 3/8" ISO 5675 coupler.

If you want to avoid problems look up the OEM part number stamped on the coupler to get a positive ID.

Dan
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user