Some of you may remember my Post about my B2601 breaking in half!

torch

Well-known member

Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, RC54-71B, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Jun 10, 2016
2,195
434
83
Muskoka, Ont.
I'm looking at your picture, trying to figure out how this happened. I see two possibilities. First, it could have happened in the original accident. Second, it could have happened during reassembly after replacing the filter housing. The angle of the pipe and the return bend of the flange argue towards a failure of the pipe to fully seat, possibly due to the grey goo (gasket maker?) surrounding the pipe. I wonder if the apparent sealant prevented full engagement, and then torquing the bolt bent the flange.

Of course, it is equally possible that the flange was bent to that angle by the damage to the original housing. When installed in the new housing, the bent flange prevented the pipe from fully seating. Did you realize this was happening? Is that why sealant was applied?

Regardless of the cause, I am concerned about two possible cracks in the flange, circled in red, below:

pipe_bolt_flange.jpg


I'm not certain they are cracks -- they could be some photographic artifact or perhaps some strings of sealant, but they do appear to be aligned with the bends. If they are cracks, they could be a point of future failure. I'm sure you are tired of giving Messicks money, but I think you should seriously consider replacing that pipe.

Personally, I'm not a fan of adding gasket makers or other sealants to o-ring sealed joints. I think it best to clean them well and apply a compatible lubricant to the O-ring (eg: a thin smear of the liquid to be sealed or perhaps some Parker Super-O Lube. Or even Vasoline). But: your tractor, your choice.
 
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fried1765

Well-known member

Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
1,270
912
113
Eastham, Ma
I'm looking at your picture, trying to figure out how this happened. I see two possibilities. First, it could have happened in the original accident. Second, it could have happened during reassembly after replacing the filter housing. The angle of the pipe and the return bend of the flange argue towards a failure of the pipe to fully seat, possibly due to the grey goo (gasket maker?) surrounding the pipe. I wonder if the apparent sealant prevented full engagement, and then torquing the bolt bent the flange.

Of course, it is equally possible that the flange was bent to that angle by the damage to the original housing. When installed in the new housing, the bent flange prevented the pipe from fully seating. Did you realize this was happening? Is that why sealant was applied?

Regardless of the cause, I am concerned about two possible cracks in the flange, circled in red, below:

View attachment 78063

I'm not certain they are cracks -- they could be some photographic artifact or perhaps some strings of sealant, but they do appear to be aligned with the bends. If they are cracks, they could be a point of future failure. I'm sure you are tired of giving Messicks money, but I think you should seriously consider replacing that pipe.

Personally, I'm not a fan of adding gasket makers or other sealants to o-ring sealed joints. I think it best to clean them well and apply a compatible lubricant to the O-ring (eg: a thin smear of the liquid to be sealed or perhaps some Parker Super-O Lube. Or even Vasoline). But: your tractor, your choice.
That situation certainly does look very "iffy" to me!
 
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avvidclif

New member

Equipment
BX2230 L285
May 12, 2020
23
0
1
Mabank, Tx
Took some time to try to find where the broken ring came from. No luck, I just can't find a part that's missing.

Here are some additional pictures that show some of the wear inside. Rear Diff shows some wear for sure.
Someone has a very nice parts washer Jealousy.
 

Dieseldonato

Well-known member

Equipment
B7510 hydro, yanmar ym146, cub cadet 1450, 582,782
Mar 15, 2022
532
293
63
Pa
Not that I endorse it or am picking on the op, but. I worked with a guy that would give all the orings he used on an external part a smear of silicon. Never seemed to hurt anything, but sure made it a pia to take back apart if you had to.
 

Egressman

Member

Equipment
B2601
Sep 7, 2016
140
7
18
Richmond, IN, United States
That’s the link from my post. An accident such as this has lasting effects of course. As of recent, I have had a problem moving the tractor. While I can fix most anything I need to know what needs to be fixed. I know some of you out there can tell me what is going on! You are who I am looking for.

I used my tractor to push over a dead tree down the road, once I was ready to leave I had a loss of power, Hydraulic power that is, It was screaming as I pressed the pedal forward and aft. It would barely move. This is across all gears and ranges, forward and aft.

I serviced the fluid to make sure that was not the issue. I’m thinking clutch? But I’m not a tractor mechanic; I have 20 plus years on fighters and bombers lol. They are not the same!

I was able to limp it home, shifting from low to high and back. It was start to slow and the harder I pushed the more it strained!

It now has got to the point where it will barely move at all, I have some movement of the bucket but that’s marginal at best. I was able to roll the bucket enough to remove the front tire to reseal a bead.

Help me out please, before I tear open the case I want an idea of what I need to look for and possible pre-order the parts so I can swap ASAP.

Egressman



That’s the link from my post. An accident such as this has lasting effects of course. As of recent, I have had a problem moving the tractor. While I can fix most anything I need to know what needs to be fixed. I know some of you out there can tell me what is going on! You are who I am looking for.

I used my tractor to push over a dead tree down the road, once I was ready to leave I had a loss of power, Hydraulic power that is, It was screaming as I pressed the pedal forward and aft. It would barely move. This is across all gears and ranges, forward and aft.

I serviced the fluid to make sure that was not the issue. I’m thinking clutch? But I’m not a tractor mechanic; I have 20 plus years on fighters and bombers lol. They are not the same!

I was able to limp it home, shifting from low to high and back. It was start to slow and the harder I pushed the more it strained!

It now has got to the point where it will barely move at all, I have some movement of the bucket but that’s marginal at best. I was able to roll the bucket enough to remove the front tire to reseal a bead.

Help me out please, before I tear open the case I want an idea of what I need to look for and possible pre-order the parts so I can swap ASAP.

Egressman



I wish I could say, everything is running great now, however, that’s not true.

I replace all the parts on the suction side, my fluid is golden with no air, and the sump is full.

I also pulled off the external Hyd pump, broke it apart, and inspected it. No internal issues with the pump. I reinstalled it and bleed the line; it seems to be doing its thing.

3 Pt hitch has no issues at all, PTO no issues at all.

Power steering is jacked up, hard to turn the wheel; I am constantly fighting it in both 2-wheel drive and 4-wheel drive.

The bucket has some issues, I have plenty of power, but it’s just somewhat slow and jerky when driving at the same time.

Movement, this is where most of my problems are!

I have no power in High Range, a slight incline causes it to whine and stop moving. It will run fine to full speed going downhill?? Not with a load on it at all.

Mid-Range is a problem also, It does partiality work. I am able to drive in mid and can tackle slight hills, but nothing really steep. Again, no problem going downhill.

Then we have low range, low range has its own issues. It runs best on very low rpm, the more throttle you apple the less it wants to move. It does have some power but is very hard to gauge. I am able to dig and lift. Push, and climb, but the use is very narrow.

I was able to drill post holes yesterday. I was able to dig a huge rock out all in low. I was able to push that rock home in the low range. But sometimes the tractor will not move at all. You push the pedal and it has no resistance and does not move the tractor. One would think after it warmed up it would get better, but it doesn’t.

What now?

I was able to dig these rocks out of the ground and push and roll them to my house next door.
 

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Dieseldonato

Well-known member

Equipment
B7510 hydro, yanmar ym146, cub cadet 1450, 582,782
Mar 15, 2022
532
293
63
Pa
Something is jacked up in your hydro pump/charge pump mate.
 

Egressman

Member

Equipment
B2601
Sep 7, 2016
140
7
18
Richmond, IN, United States
I'm looking at your picture, trying to figure out how this happened. I see two possibilities. First, it could have happened in the original accident. Second, it could have happened during reassembly after replacing the filter housing. The angle of the pipe and the return bend of the flange argue towards a failure of the pipe to fully seat, possibly due to the grey goo (gasket maker?) surrounding the pipe. I wonder if the apparent sealant prevented full engagement, and then torquing the bolt bent the flange.

Of course, it is equally possible that the flange was bent to that angle by the damage to the original housing. When installed in the new housing, the bent flange prevented the pipe from fully seating. Did you realize this was happening? Is that why sealant was applied?

Regardless of the cause, I am concerned about two possible cracks in the flange, circled in red, below:

View attachment 78063

I'm not certain they are cracks -- they could be some photographic artifact or perhaps some strings of sealant, but they do appear to be aligned with the bends. If they are cracks, they could be a point of future failure. I'm sure you are tired of giving Messicks money, but I think you should seriously consider replacing that pipe.

Personally, I'm not a fan of adding gasket makers or other sealants to o-ring sealed joints. I think it best to clean them well and apply a compatible lubricant to the O-ring (eg: a thin smear of the liquid to be sealed or perhaps some Parker Super-O Lube. Or even Vasoline). But: your tractor, your choice.
I replaced the entire suction path.
 

torch

Well-known member

Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, RC54-71B, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Jun 10, 2016
2,195
434
83
Muskoka, Ont.
Wild guess: flow priority valve malfunction.
That may explain the steering issues, but not the propulsion. Different systems.
 
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Dieseldonato

Well-known member

Equipment
B7510 hydro, yanmar ym146, cub cadet 1450, 582,782
Mar 15, 2022
532
293
63
Pa
There's no priority valve. The power steering has its own section in the pump on the engine and the hydrostatic pump has its own charge pump. The only thing they have in common is is a shared sump.
 
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ACDII

Well-known member

Equipment
B2410, L352 Loader, Woods BH70-X backhoe
Oct 21, 2021
574
343
63
Illinois
Keeping simple criteria in mind, Fluid in, Fluid out. In order to get power, the pump must move fluid. The more fluid it can move the more power it can produce. From the sounds of it, the pump is lacking power, which leads me to believe it can't get enough fluid moving through it. Could be something as simple as a reversed or stuck check ball somewhere. Maybe a relief valve is leaking pressure.

Power steering is a separate section of the secondary hydraulic pump that powers the FEL and 3PH, and since thosse are also showing sings, it is possible there is a suction issue with that pump, its getting enough fluid to drive the FEL sporadically, but not enough to power the steering gear. You need to do flow tests with gauges before and after the pumps to make sure it is sucking in enough fluid and not bleeding off after.
Both could be related to the same issue, or separate issues, but chances are if you figure out one, you will figure out both.
 
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South 40

Active member

Equipment
L1500DT, 750 Ford backhoe, 49 D4 Cat Repowered with 6.9L Diesel
Nov 12, 2012
157
45
28
Bloomsdale, Mo. USA
Hey Folks,

Having read thru this entire thread the OP keeps referring to a "Whine" noise, my question is this, is the whine noise like a gearbox would make or is more high pitched screeching noise like fluid by-passing somewhere.

If it's the "Whine" a gear box would make then he could have something mechanical, (gears, shaft, bearing, ect.) binding, but if it is a higher pitch noise like fluid being "by-passed" somewhere then it is most likely hydraulic.

It's also possible he has something binding that is overloading the hydraulic system and causing it to by-pass somewhere, like a relief valve?

To the OP have you tried jacking the tractor off the ground and trying to spin the tires, steering, if so does it make any noise, does it make noise at a low enough speed someone could walk along side with a hose and listen for where exactly the noise it coming from?

Sometimes noises can be hard to describe or locate exactly where it's coming from, I know when I raise my 3PT hitch if I don't kick the lever back to the center position my hydraulics "Squeal", (very high pitched sound), like I do when I get hurt, lol, just louder, and I know it's fluid by-passing.

Cheers
Samantha
 

Egressman

Member

Equipment
B2601
Sep 7, 2016
140
7
18
Richmond, IN, United States
Keeping simple criteria in mind, Fluid in, Fluid out. In order to get power, the pump must move fluid. The more fluid it can move the more power it can produce. From the sounds of it, the pump is lacking power, which leads me to believe it can't get enough fluid moving through it. Could be something as simple as a reversed or stuck check ball somewhere. Maybe a relief valve is leaking pressure.

Power steering is a separate section of the secondary hydraulic pump that powers the FEL and 3PH, and since thosse are also showing sings, it is possible there is a suction issue with that pump, its getting enough fluid to drive the FEL sporadically, but not enough to power the steering gear. You need to do flow tests with gauges before and after the pumps to make sure it is sucking in enough fluid and not bleeding off after.
Both could be related to the same issue or separate issues, but chances are if you figure out one, you will figure out both.
Something I noticed yesterday, I have my box scrapper installed, my bucket was empty, I crossed a small drainage ditch and I dropped the box to clean out heavy mud. The tractor stalled (stop going forward) I was in 4wd and locked rear diff. As I raised the box I started to move again. When I kept pushing the pedal to climb the slippery slope I was slowly gaining ground, as I kept pushing the pedal all of a sudden the power just dropped off 100%, As if something broke. I let off the pedal, let it settle, and then went right back to power, it climbed slowly with slippage, and it then just dropped off again.

I used my bucket to pull me up the rest of the way with steady power in Low, Once I hit some better grass it drove out like nothing was wrong.

Later when I was leaving that property I tried to travel fast to clean out the tires, I went too high and 3/4 throttle, as I applied pedal it whined and more or less stalled out, it was screaming as if it wouldn't move. I let off and dropped to Mid-range, applied power, and began to go. As I got to the top of the small grade I stopped and went back to high, applied power, and sailed home. Under any load, it doesn't want to go, but if I am on level ground it goes.

Even in low gear if my throttle is up it will slow and stop moving forward, if I retard the throttle it grabs again and I start getting hp to the wheels again and I can slowly add power again.

I am going to get some video with sound today, I think I can upload it here??
 

hagrid

Well-known member

Equipment
K1600GTL, ZX-14R
Jun 11, 2018
410
289
63
Pittsburgh
Your HST pump is acting like it's getting air. From whence does your charge oil come? A dedicated or shared pompe?
 

Dieseldonato

Well-known member

Equipment
B7510 hydro, yanmar ym146, cub cadet 1450, 582,782
Mar 15, 2022
532
293
63
Pa
Dedicated pump for the hydro.
Kinda sounded like something was ratcheting as well. Hydro was very unhappy. I can't tell you how or where to check charge pressure. But it needs checked.
It did almost sound like a coupler was skipping. As these don't have clutches in them anymore. May be something to look into. Push the brakes and hydro at the same time and see if the nose is coming from the rear engine area. I actually think the coupler is stripped. If you could see the drive shaft it would be easier to check but I'm not sure there's any access holes to look down through.
 

Egressman

Member

Equipment
B2601
Sep 7, 2016
140
7
18
Richmond, IN, United States
Upload to you tube and post link
Dedicated pump for the hydro.
Kinda sounded like something was ratcheting as well. Hydro was very unhappy. I can't tell you how or where to check charge pressure. But it needs checked.
It did almost sound like a coupler was skipping. As these don't have clutches in them anymore. May be something to look into. Push the brakes and hydro at the same time and see if the nose is coming from the rear engine area. I actually think the coupler is stripped. If you could see the drive shaft it would be easier to check but I'm not sure there's any access holes to look down through.
Which drive shaft? I had the tractor torn all the way down. there was nothing wrong with the drive chain.