Sabre Samurai hydraulic hookup & options

origami

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'12 BX25. Previous: '95 B1700
Apr 18, 2016
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I'm on 10 acres in Northern Virginia (outside DC), with about six acres covered in woods, with shrubs and undergrowth and bordering/encroaching on an irregularly shaped lawn. Some of this undergrowth grows quickly, gradually reclaiming the lawn from the edges and causing a maintenance challenge that I would like to address. I suspect that I easily have several thousand feet of such "border" areas that I need to deal with.

Until last summer, I'd address the biggest problem areas with a chainsaw and a gas powered hedge trimmer to cut back the encroaching vertical wall of vegetation. That came to a screeching halt when I blew out a heart valve (surgically repaired last December), which I suspected happened last summer during one of these work sessions. I've not returned to that task since but the work needs to be done and only grows.

So, when I saw the Sabre Samurai mentioned in a post here recently, it caught my eye. It's kind of pricey ($1500+), but looks fit for this purpose. Hooking it up to the bucket and doing a drive-by assault on the brush seems ideal. Problem is, my little Bx25 doesn't have a third function hydraulic control installed. Adding one bumps the overall investment another 50 percent and would have me working on hydraulics for the first time (not impossible, but would have to familiarize myself with the system and technology basics).

So, I'm wondering: Can it be run off the hydraulic lines in the back of the tractor (backhoe connections) instead of installing a third function kit? If so, how do you regulate flow rate through it (since it seems to require a constant flow of 3.3 gpm at 200 psi to drive the integrated hydraulic motor)?

I'm willing to entertain ideas for other solutions, too.

Thanks!

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scdeerslayer

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May 23, 2016
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If your backhoe connection is the type where you have to break the loop to install the backhoe, and then reconnect the loop when you take the backhoe off, that's not going to work without a valve. Instead of doing that, you'd be better off getting a 3rd function or a rear remote installed. The plumbing for a 3rd function really isn't that complicated, the hardest part of the install will probably be figuring out where to get the power from.
 

sheepfarmer

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This probably falls under the "other solutions" category, and it wouldn't be cheaper to implement. I use a flail mower offset to one side to beat back encroaching brush and weeds. It works well. You just drive around the edge a couple times during the summer. I have brush blades on mine and it is set higher than the lawn mower would cut. For some harder to reach areas, you can lift up the mower and back up, put it down over a bush and gradually chop it into little bits.

The question would be if you can get a flail that a BX can run. You might have to trade it in on a bigger tractor:D
 

origami

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'12 BX25. Previous: '95 B1700
Apr 18, 2016
62
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6
Leesburg, VA
If your backhoe connection is the type where you have to break the loop to install the backhoe, and then reconnect the loop when you take the backhoe off, that's not going to work without a valve. Instead of doing that, you'd be better off getting a 3rd function or a rear remote installed. The plumbing for a 3rd function really isn't that complicated, the hardest part of the install will probably be figuring out where to get the power from.
Thanks. That's the kind of connection it has. I'm going to look up rear-remotes and learn something about them. :)

I did write the company. They were helpful with advice on how to use their product without a third function. Granted, they stand a better chance of making a sale if they can ease that requirement. For others (in the future) that might benefit from the reply, here's what they came back with:

"Thank you for you interest on the Samurai. You could run the Samurai from your rear hydraulic port and you would control the flow by keeping your tractor at an RPM rate which would keep the Samurai at its desired speed. Another option which most of our customers use is to disconnect the lines which control the pitch of the bucket and use these ports to power the Samurai. You would hold the pitch lever to engage the Samurai and again use the engine RPM to control you flow. Most times you don't require the pitch function of your bucket when you are trimming."
 

origami

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Equipment
'12 BX25. Previous: '95 B1700
Apr 18, 2016
62
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6
Leesburg, VA
This probably falls under the "other solutions" category, and it wouldn't be cheaper to implement. I use a flail mower offset to one side to beat back encroaching brush and weeds. It works well. You just drive around the edge a couple times during the summer. I have brush blades on mine and it is set higher than the lawn mower would cut. For some harder to reach areas, you can lift up the mower and back up, put it down over a bush and gradually chop it into little bits.

The question would be if you can get a flail that a BX can run. You might have to trade it in on a bigger tractor:D
Ha! Sounds just like the advice we get in my other hobby - reef aquariums. "Go bigger." It's the WAF (wife-approval-factor) that comes into play in those cases and, likely, in this one as well.

Cheaper than heart surgery, though!
 

sheepfarmer

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Woodmaxx sells a 54" flail for 18 to 40 hp tractors for $1949, and their picture seems to show a BX. I don't remember what my Caroni cost. It would save fooling with the hydraulics.
 

Grouse Feathers

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Thanks. That's the kind of connection it has. I'm going to look up rear-remotes and learn something about them. :)
The Kubota rear remote kit for BXs that I bought for my BX2370 was only $330. I don't think you will be able to beat that with an after market setup. Do not look for the kit online you will only find the parts listed for a lot more than $330. Call a Kubota salesman and get a quote for the kit. The kit is designed to fit on BX tractors and used for their dealer installed option. It is easy to install if you have some piping or hydraulic experience and only takes a couple of hours.
 

origami

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'12 BX25. Previous: '95 B1700
Apr 18, 2016
62
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Leesburg, VA
Woodmaxx sells a 54" flail for 18 to 40 hp tractors for $1949, and their picture seems to show a BX. I don't remember what my Caroni cost. It would save fooling with the hydraulics.
Thanks, it looks like a beast. However, can it cut vertically? I'm looking at a picture of it on Woodmaxx's site and struggling to see how it can turn 90 degrees make vertical cuts. That's what I need, to make a vertical cut up the side of the growth (like trimming the edge of a hedge).

The Kubota rear remote kit for BXs that I bought for my BX2370 was only $330. I don't think you will be able to beat that with an after market setup. Do not look for the kit online you will only find the parts listed for a lot more than $330. Call a Kubota salesman and get a quote for the kit. The kit is designed to fit on BX tractors and used for their dealer installed option. It is easy to install if you have some piping or hydraulic experience and only takes a couple of hours.
Interesting option. Do you have pictures of the assembly that you could share? Is there a detent on the control to keep the valve open (to run the hydraulic motor on the Samurai)? I don't have any hydraulic experience, but did take some time today to review the hydraulics schematic for the BX and it made sense. I still need to make a trip out to the shed to see the real hardware to get a better sense of things by tracing it all out.
 

sheepfarmer

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No a flail can't be turned vertically!
 

origami

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'12 BX25. Previous: '95 B1700
Apr 18, 2016
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No a flail can't be turned vertically!
That's what I figured for this. There are images in Google images that show a flail on an powered arm (and references to vertical/rotating models on Wikipedia) but they look far more complex (and heavy) than the Woodmaxx series.



Yep. Considerably different. :) Just had to ask, though.
 
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Grouse Feathers

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Interesting option. Do you have pictures of the assembly that you could share? Is there a detent on the control to keep the valve open (to run the hydraulic motor on the Samurai)? I don't have any hydraulic experience, but did take some time today to review the hydraulics schematic for the BX and it made sense. I still need to make a trip out to the shed to see the real hardware to get a better sense of things by tracing it all out.
I am busy getting ready for 2 weeks of fly fishing in Montana, but here is the thread that got me started and it includes some good pictures: http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29826&highlight=rear+remotes
There are no detents on either valve, but it looks like you could build some type of stop on the fender to hold the lever in the open position. I similarly fixed the 3 point control lever so it will stay in the down position, allowing 3 point implements to float on the ground. I will offer a couple of suggestions if you do choose to install the rear remote kit.
 

origami

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'12 BX25. Previous: '95 B1700
Apr 18, 2016
62
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6
Leesburg, VA
I am busy getting ready for 2 weeks of fly fishing in Montana, but here is the thread that got me started and it includes some good pictures: http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29826&highlight=rear+remotes
There are no detents on either valve, but it looks like you could build some type of stop on the fender to hold the lever in the open position. I similarly fixed the 3 point control lever so it will stay in the down position, allowing 3 point implements to float on the ground. I will offer a couple of suggestions if you do choose to install the rear remote kit.
Thanks, Larry. Enjoy the break and good luck!
 

origami

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'12 BX25. Previous: '95 B1700
Apr 18, 2016
62
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6
Leesburg, VA
This is a suggestion under other options. What about saving a bundle and just getting a Paranha toothbar?

http://bxpanded.com/piranha-toothbar

I've only heard good things about it.
Thank you. I have one already and love it. :D

I guess that I wasn't clear in the original post. I'm not cutting brush at ground level. I'm looking to cut back branches (from brush) that are extending more and more into the lawn area. So the cut is going to be vertical, not horizontal - sort of like trimming the side of a hedge. Only, in my case, my hedge is several thousand meandering feet long and includes a 10-foot wide pathway (between a couple of clearings) that has narrowed down now to about 3-feet because of the branches encroaching on either side. A big hedge-trimming blade with the capability to chomp down on 1" branches would be ideal. I could make a couple of passes with the blade and then mulch the debris back with the mower, ejecting it back under the remaining brush.
 

origami

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'12 BX25. Previous: '95 B1700
Apr 18, 2016
62
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Leesburg, VA
Bulldog has the kind of gadget you'd like, and the county around here uses one to clean up the side of the road. More like a brush hog on a boom. Pricey.

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18619&highlight=Steep+banks

Here is a thread with some pictures.
Thanks. Yes, pricey and very heavy. But, it got me searching to see other options. Here's another 5-foot sickle bar mower for subcompats from EverythingAttachments. At $3300 ($3,500 with a hydraulic fold capability), it's still pricey and pretty bulky, but the pictures seem to show it installed on a BX. Very nice option for some people, including those that might be mowing slopes around ponds and ditches.
 

Grouse Feathers

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So, I'm wondering: Can it be run off the hydraulic lines in the back of the tractor (backhoe connections) instead of installing a third function kit? If so, how do you regulate flow rate through it (since it seems to require a constant flow of 3.3 gpm at 200 psi to drive the integrated hydraulic motor)?
The BX hydraulic pump is rated at 6.2 gpm. Does anyone know if there is 3.3 gpm left over to run something like a Sabre Samurai. I assume the hydrostatic transmission, power steering, and front end loader could all be using the hydraulics at the same time as the Sabre Samurai.
 

origami

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'12 BX25. Previous: '95 B1700
Apr 18, 2016
62
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6
Leesburg, VA
The BX hydraulic pump is rated at 6.2 gpm. Does anyone know if there is 3.3 gpm left over to run something like a Sabre Samurai. I assume the hydrostatic transmission, power steering, and front end loader could all be using the hydraulics at the same time as the Sabre Samurai.
The loader should be static most of the time since it's only used to adjust the height of the sickle. The CutThat representative did say something about powering the hydraulic motor of the Sabre Samurai by disconnecting and reusing the bucket dump circuit as an acceptable means of driving the unit. In that case, I'd have to pin the control lever one way or another to keep flow going through the motor. Whether or not the HST and PS still have enough flow is a question I'd like to have answered. Good question. Thanks.