Loader sub frame bolts.

CGMKCM

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RVT-1100C, ZD323, L4760
Jan 26, 2021
371
175
43
Randolph county N.C.
Just wanted to pass on some info.

I have had my tractor 1 year and have 120 operating hours. I did not receive the operators manual for the loader when I purchased the tractor and I was unaware about the requirement to re-torque all fasteners on the sub frame. I just finished and found several bolts that were below the 160 lbft torque rating for my 1050 loader.
 

lugbolt

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ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
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Mid, South, USA
yes that is considered normal, and is part of servicing. When dealers do the servicing, they are supposed to check the bolts. I always did (every single time). After the initial 50 hours, they were rarely ever loose after tightened.
 
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Mossy dell

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B2601 (2021) JD970 (1998) B2100 (1991) B6100E (1988)
Jul 20, 2020
274
125
43
sw VA
I just torqued my loader bolts after 50 hours and discovered a missing bolt. This is the third setup issue on my tractor and by far the most serious, the other issues being a loose hydraulic line and two loader zerks not greased.

My local dealer, the branch of the main dealership that setup my tractor, picked it up and installed the missing bolt and moved another bolt location further back. However, when they brought it back today, when I checked out the new bolt I saw it had not been tightened. The nut was barely on the bolt.

I'm beyond disgusted. On the first two issues, the main store blamed a setup kid they fired. This is a major, established Kubota dealer. So hiring should be better—bad hires, poor supervision, needed training, and checking out work are all management issues. The new branch has been prompt, fixing the lose hydraulic line and picking up my tractor right away for this bolt issue. They make a point of saying one of their two experienced technicians does setup. And one of them took care of my loader bolts.

How does this happen? When this is an issue of safety and equipment integrity?

And while I'm at it, I hate getting my tractor back and knowing it was left out in the rain, and when I started it to back it off the trailer found the throttle wide open, so I guess it was shut down with the engine roaring. I am by no means a mechanic, or mechanical, but I try to take care of this expensive, well-made machine. I'll never send it to the dealer unless it's an emergency, like the bolt issue was. And I am totally disillusioned with my Kubota dealer and its service departments.

LA435 frame bolts right side.jpg
LA435 Manual.jpg
 

NCL4701

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L4701, T2290, WC68, grapple, BB1572 box scrape, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
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And I am totally disillusioned with my Kubota dealer and its service departments.
For better or worse, the dealership is a large part of the deal with an equipment purchase, much more so than with a typical passenger car or pickup. If there aren’t problems and you do your own maintenance you may not need them routinely but they need to be reliable, responsive, competent, and trustworthy when you do need them. Due to my work I had a good bit of experience with all my local dealers prior to purchase. The manufacturer was part of the decision. That narrowed it down to 5 for me. My prior experience with the dealers narrowed it down to 2. Visiting those 2 narrowed it to 1 and now I’m driving a Kubota.

Since then when I meet a fellow Kubota owner here; commercial, farm, or personal use, I almost always ask why they went with Kubota. Interestingly, they all say the same thing, “Riddle Tractor”. Like me, they wanted a top tier machine and past that, dealership makes all the difference.

My brother, who lives 2 hours away, has a good relationship with his JD dealer and has been very pleased with them in his green operation. Dealership makes a huge difference.
 
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CGMKCM

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RVT-1100C, ZD323, L4760
Jan 26, 2021
371
175
43
Randolph county N.C.
yes that is considered normal, and is part of servicing. When dealers do the servicing, they are supposed to check the bolts. I always did (every single time). After the initial 50 hours, they were rarely ever loose after tightened.
I agree it is normal and that the dealer should check at the 50 hour service. I do not know if they checked it or not because the paperwork showed work description as 50 hour service and was not itemized. I am hoping my post will get others to look up there loader owners manual and re-torque the fasteners listed in the manual. In hindsight I should have asked the dealer to supply me with the loader manual.
 

Mossy dell

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B2601 (2021) JD970 (1998) B2100 (1991) B6100E (1988)
Jul 20, 2020
274
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sw VA
You are very fortune to have so much dealer choice where you live, NC. And also you have the expertise to assess dealers. I don't. I went by size and longevity.
 

NCL4701

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L4701, T2290, WC68, grapple, BB1572 box scrape, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
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Central Piedmont, NC
You are very fortune to have so much dealer choice where you live, NC. And also you have the expertise to assess dealers. I don't. I went by size and longevity.
Much of the time that’s all you have to go on.
 
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lugbolt

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ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
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yeah there's some dealer issues that face all dealers, big and small.

One, the techs are in short supply, GOOD techs aren't sticking around because dealers can't afford to pay them well enough to retain them. Setup guys are often lower wage employees that have little experience & it's as if they hire them with the thought that they are second rate, and that is dead wrong! A setup tech has as much responsibility resting on their shoulders as a customer-repair tech, in some cases even more responsibility. They're often asked to work harder than their ability, they're often asked to work in conditions that are less than ideal, small work areas, lack of tooling, etc. I mean, I started off doing exactly this (setup tech) and it quickly came apparent that my little tool set was nowhere near adequate. Fortunately my neighbor was the service manager and he let me use his stuff while I saved and purchased my own, which took several years.

As far as itemizing repair orders, I always did it, but often got chewed out for doing it. It was as if they were saying "the customer might like it but we don't". Their thought was that if the repair order notes are itemized and spelled out in such a way that it described the repairs in detail--the boss thought that it was "telling the customer how to fix it next time"--rather than them bringing it back if they have the same problem again. Seriously. So usually if I got an RO for an oil change, I would add to the repair order that I checked the machine over while the oil was being removed, and noticed that maybe a loader bolt was loose. In doing this, it also lets the service manager know that he needs to call the customer and ask them if he wants us to tighten the bolt, or let him do it. That in itself is challenging in a busy shop environment; again not enough time in a day to call everyone....and oftentimes they don't answer the phone anyway (but they're more likely to answer a text!)

in the first 26 years of kubota dealer work, I learned a lot and one of the more important things was that the customer comes first. Without them, there ain't nobody to pay the bills and there ain't nobody to give you something to do on a slow winter workday. You take care of them, they take care of you. I always stuck to that in about everything and it showed. There was a reason our little tiny dealer was as popular as it was; at least until it was bought out by an investment company. Then it went downhill in the 2 1/2 years I stuck with them. Couldn't take it no more. The dollar became more important than the customer. Unfortunate.
 
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Mossy dell

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B2601 (2021) JD970 (1998) B2100 (1991) B6100E (1988)
Jul 20, 2020
274
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sw VA
Lots of good information in your post, lugbolt. I did not know techs are responsible for supplying their own tools. I wonder if the "setup kid" for my tractor had to go around borrowing tools . . . I have more sympathy for the techs now and a worse view of management!

yeah there's some dealer issues that face all dealers, big and small.

One, the techs are in short supply, GOOD techs aren't sticking around because dealers can't afford to pay them well enough to retain them. Setup guys are often lower wage employees that have little experience & it's as if they hire them with the thought that they are second rate, and that is dead wrong! A setup tech has as much responsibility resting on their shoulders as a customer-repair tech, in some cases even more responsibility. They're often asked to work harder than their ability, they're often asked to work in conditions that are less than ideal, small work areas, lack of tooling, etc. I mean, I started off doing exactly this (setup tech) and it quickly came apparent that my little tool set was nowhere near adequate. Fortunately my neighbor was the service manager and he let me use his stuff while I saved and purchased my own, which took several years.

As far as itemizing repair orders, I always did it, but often got chewed out for doing it. It was as if they were saying "the customer might like it but we don't". Their thought was that if the repair order notes are itemized and spelled out in such a way that it described the repairs in detail--the boss thought that it was "telling the customer how to fix it next time"--rather than them bringing it back if they have the same problem again. Seriously. So usually if I got an RO for an oil change, I would add to the repair order that I checked the machine over while the oil was being removed, and noticed that maybe a loader bolt was loose. In doing this, it also lets the service manager know that he needs to call the customer and ask them if he wants us to tighten the bolt, or let him do it. That in itself is challenging in a busy shop environment; again not enough time in a day to call everyone....and oftentimes they don't answer the phone anyway (but they're more likely to answer a text!)

in the first 26 years of kubota dealer work, I learned a lot and one of the more important things was that the customer comes first. Without them, there ain't nobody to pay the bills and there ain't nobody to give you something to do on a slow winter workday. You take care of them, they take care of you. I always stuck to that in about everything and it showed. There was a reason our little tiny dealer was as popular as it was; at least until it was bought out by an investment company. Then it went downhill in the 2 1/2 years I stuck with them. Couldn't take it no more. The dollar became more important than the customer. Unfortunate.
 

kubotafreak

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GRAND l6060, L3560, B6100, gr2100, tg 1860, g1800, g1900, g2160
Sep 20, 2018
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Most fields require you as a tech to supply the majority of the tools required to do jobs. The better dealers will supply the big items, and even the specialty tools. Be somewhat happy about your experience. I had received a tractor with the wrong loader mounts. la555 mounts vs la805 mounts. Both work, and both fit the loader. The issue is when adding third function the mount does not have provisions for the brackets. Well they wanted my machine in service to get them swapped out. I against my better judgement let them take my machine. (Im a do everything myself guy) The Setup Kid(because a good tech like lugbolt wouldn't have done this) stripped out two of the mount bosses in the FRAME. The rest of the bolts were loose. I showed the service manager, who did feel bad, and wanted to fix it for me. Needless to say I took the machine, and new brackets/bolts home to do the job correctly. Cost me some Heli coils to fix the impacted loader threads. It can always be worse, and I could have raised more stink, but its just not worth it. If you have the knowledge fix it yourself. I know someone on here will disagree, Im sure they get some spit in their burgers...
 
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GeoHorn

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Most fields require you as a tech to supply the majority of the tools required to do jobs. The better dealers will supply the big items, and even the specialty tools. Be somewhat happy about your experience. I had received a tractor with the wrong loader mounts. la555 mounts vs la805 mounts. Both work, and both fit the loader. The issue is when adding third function the mount does not have provisions for the brackets. Well they wanted my machine in service to get them swapped out. I against my better judgement let them take my machine. (Im a do everything myself guy) The Setup Kid(because a good tech like lugbolt wouldn't have done this) stripped out two of the mount bosses in the FRAME. The rest of the bolts were loose. I showed the service manager, who did feel bad, and wanted to fix it for me. Needless to say I took the machine, and new brackets/bolts home to do the job correctly. Cost me some Heli coils to fix the impacted loader threads. It can always be worse, and I could have raised more stink, but its just not worth it. If you have the knowledge fix it yourself. I know someone on here will disagree, Im sure they get some spit in their burgers...
Agreed! I can afford to pay someone else to do some of the unpleasant jobs on machinery…but I just don’t trust others to do the job as carefully as I myself would. Just because someone has a job-title like “tech” at some dealership somewhere doesn’t mean they’ve been trained or have any prior experience on the particular job you might need done.
Example: I’ve got a leaking oil seal on my left/front bevel gear-case. Although it only LOOKS like a simple drain/unbolt/separate/replace-seal/reverse-ops….. I don’t trust either the kid OR the old-guy at the dealership has ever done this before on my model tractor… and I don’t know if they’ll pay attention to the bearings/gears and backlash details a well as I will.
When I worked as a Toyota “tech” the custom was that all common hand-tools would be furnished/owned by the employee and only special factory tools were provided by the dealership. Those factory tools had to be “checked-out” at the parts-window just as you might with a book at a library. It was logged in/out by the parts-dept with the tech’s signature and time in/out noted.
Footnote: A talented technician could “beat” the flat-rate time schedule for some jobs… but a smart tech would keep the factory tool at LEAST as long as the flat-rate listed…. even if he’d long-finished the job and working on another vehicle even. That was easier than proving to the svc-mgr that you’d not simply “hit it with a hammer” and had truly done the job….if a suspicious customer complained the problem wasn’t fixed. (I had a technique on a particular job that paid 4.5 hours in which I could accomplish the full and proper repair in less than ONE hour by doing the job in a different sequence than the factory manual described. I could do 6 or 7 of them in one 8-hr working day. Eventually the svc-mgr noticed and confronted me with an accusation that I must be cheating somehow.…he wanted to watch me do the job. I didn’t let him because I figured he’d somehow reduce the pay on that job if he knew I was faster than the factory. Instead, I asked him if he’d pay me 4.5 hrs more if I could prove I’d actually been INSIDE that engine sufficiently far to do the work.…. Since he believed it impossible he agreed instead to give me an extra day off next Holiday. So I opened HIS OWN engine back up (I’d done the repair to his own little pickup only the month before under warranty) …and showed him my initials, date, and W.O. number I’d engraved on the replacement parts I’d installed last month!). LOL
(He actually DID pay me for the disassembly time it took.). :ROFLMAO:
 
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DustyRusty

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BX23S
Nov 8, 2015
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When I had my own shop, the local Ford service manager would bring cars to me to do repairs that their mechanics couldn't handle. One of the jobs was to change the spark plug on one of the big high-performance engines. The factory service bulletin advised the dealer to cut 8 holes in the inner pans to access the spark plugs. He advised the customers of this method, and they said that they didn't want holes drilled in their car. He would send all these cars to me to change the plugs, which we could do in less than 2 hours. We started with removing the hood, and then removing the bolts in the engine mounts, and would lift the engine with the engine crane. Put in the new plugs, and put everything back together. When they picked up the car in the mid-afternoon, we would give them the used plugs and bill them for the work. They were always questioning how we could do that job in the 4 hours that we billed them. We learned how to do complicated jobs easier than the factory way. Many times we would customize wrenches to make the job easier.
 
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