Limited lift capacity

Work Horse

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B7200 HST 4x4
Jan 21, 2020
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Hey Guys,

Got a question about the lift capacity with 'newer' tractors. How is the factory limiting the loaders lifting capacity, and have any of you remidied this issue?

I ask because I recently used my brother in laws newer B series tractor, and was surprised when I went to go lift up a pallet of cinder blocks and the loader didn't even budge. I would have expected the rear end to lift up at minimum, but nope! He didn't have his ballast box on at the time, and it would seem kind of pointless to have one for lifting if your limited anyways. Obviously this is a safety feature of sorts, just thought you could still operate the tractor safely with the proper ballast.

For reference I have an 87' B7200 that would seemingly lift anything if I had a ballast box on the rear. I'm used to the rear picking up on heavy loads and I know to set her on down! I plan to upgrade eventually, so I was just wondering if lift capacity is something I would really need to keep in mind when the time comes. Interested to hear your responses!
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Need to check system pressure, if the pressure relief valve is set too low then that will effect lift.
Get the WSM (aka service manual) for the tractor and use it to set the pressure.
 

TheOldHokie

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Hey Guys,
Got a question about the lift capacity with 'newer' tractors. How is the factory limiting the loaders lifting capacity, and have any of you remidied this issue?

I ask because I recently used my brother in laws newer B series tractor, and was surprised when I went to go lift up a pallet of cinder blocks and the loader didn't even budge. I would have expected the rear end to lift up at minimum, but nope! He didn't have his ballast box on at the time, and it would seem kind of pointless to have one for lifting if your limited anyways. Obviously this is a safety feature of sorts, just thought you could still operate the tractor safely with the proper ballast.

For reference I have an 87' B7200 that would seemingly lift anything if I had a ballast box on the rear. I'm used to the rear picking up on heavy loads and I know to set her on down! I plan to upgrade eventually, so I was just wondering if lift capacity is something I would really need to keep in mind when the time comes. Interested to hear your responses!
Lifting force is limited by :

1) The pressure relief valve in the hydraulic outlet block
2) The pressure relief valve in the loader valve

Failure to lift rear wheels simply reflects better ballasting and load distribution.

Dan
 

Work Horse

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B7200 HST 4x4
Jan 21, 2020
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Need to check system pressure, if the pressure relief valve is set too low then that will effect lift.
Get the WSM (aka service manual) for the tractor and use it to set the pressure.
Gotcha, idk if my brother in law is really concerned about it.. but I know I would be. That tractor could easily and safely lift much more IMO. Not an expert here, but my machine is very comparable to his and I know mine would at least TRY to lift.
 

GreensvilleJay

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Have to ask what does the 'pallet of cinder blocks' actually weigh ,including the pallet ?
From the 'loader will lift' spec, you have to subtract the loader frame, the bucket or forks, the pallet and then the blocks. Fun with figures also includes that the distance the load is from the loader frame DRAMATICALLY lowers the 'lift capacity'

Other factors limiting weight capacity include
design of frame attachment to tractor
grade of steels used for frame and forks/buckets
size/type of hydraulic lines used
size of hydraulic cylinders
tire air pressure
tire weight limit
 
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Work Horse

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B7200 HST 4x4
Jan 21, 2020
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Lifting force is limited by :

1) The pressure relief valve in the hydraulic outlet block
2) The pressure relief valve in the loader valve

Failure to lift rear wheels simply reflects better ballasting and load distribution.

Dan
Thanks Dan,

I could be wrong but I think the rear not lifting up was due to the lack of lifting power. If he had a ballast box on at the time that would have made more sense to me. As soon as I went to lift the pallet, the loader stopped and didn't even try to lift the load. Then we removed some blocks and the loader went right up, no problem. Just didn't seem right to me.
 

TheOldHokie

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Gotcha, idk if my brother in law is really concerned about it.. but I know I would be. That tractor could easily and safely lift much more IMO. Not an expert here, but my machine is very comparable to his and I know mine would at least TRY to lift.
A B2601 will lift 950# to full height. My ballasted B7200 with B1630 loader cant get that off the ground and 600 pounds in the bucket at transport height will have you very tippy. That is not a good thing.

I think you are misinterpreting the observed behavior of the newer tractor and equating it to weak lift. My new L3901 with LA525 loader will lift 1800 pounds but the loader will not lift the filled back wheels of the tractor. Its simply a better and safer design.

Dan
 
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Work Horse

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Have to ask what does the 'pallet of cinder blocks' actually weigh ,including the pallet ?
From the 'loader will lift' spec, you have to subtract the loader frame, the bucket or forks, the pallet and then the blocks. Fun with figures also includes that the distance the load is from the loader frame DRAMATICALLY lowers the 'lift capacity'

Other factors limiting weight capacity include
design of frame attachment to tractor
grade of steels used for frame and forks/buckets
size/type of hydraulic lines used
size of hydraulic cylinders
tire air pressure
tire weight limit
I know his tractor is rated for 1k# lift. I want to say its a B2620 or B2626. And we were using forks with the Bobcat style quick connect. 35 blocks at 35#s comes out to 1050#s. I assumed the 'loader lift spec' would generally be underrated as to what the machine could actually lift. Seems to be that way on a lot of the older machines. That could be where my thinking is off. My machine is pretty damn similar to his despite the age gap, but I know my rears would have been lifting if I had tried to lift without a ballast like he did. Could just be the difference of our machines, I just thought it wasn't right.
 

Work Horse

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B7200 HST 4x4
Jan 21, 2020
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A B2601 will lift 950# to full height. My ballasted B7200 with B1630 loader cant get that off the ground and 600 pounds in the bucket at transport height will have you very tippy. That is not a good thing.

I think you are misinterpreting the observed behavior of the newer tractor and equating it to weak lift. My new L3901 with LA525 loader will lift 1800 pounds but the loader will not lift the filled back wheels of the tractor. Its simply a better and safer design.

Dan
Huh, well that might be all there is to it! Apples and oranges.
 

GreensvilleJay

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re: I know his tractor is rated for 1k# lift. I want to say its a B2620 or B2626. And we were using forks with the Bobcat style quick connect. 35 blocks at 35#s comes out to 1050#s. I assumed the 'loader lift spec' would generally be underrated as to what the machine could actually lift.

so 1000# lift, 1050# of blocks is already a 'no lift' situation, then ADD loader frame,forks and forks(300-400# ?) make for a max of 700# payload.
BTW the 1000# lift is AT the frame , NOT 24" out(typical forklift spec). Kub deals in sillymeteres but it'll be listed. 1000 at frame could be 600-700 2' out, and I bet the blocks are on a 42" deep skid ? The further away from the loader frame, the less it'll lift.
 
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Work Horse

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re: I know his tractor is rated for 1k# lift. I want to say its a B2620 or B2626. And we were using forks with the Bobcat style quick connect. 35 blocks at 35#s comes out to 1050#s. I assumed the 'loader lift spec' would generally be underrated as to what the machine could actually lift.

so 1000# lift, 1050# of blocks is already a 'no lift' situation, then ADD loader frame,forks and forks(300-400# ?) make for a max of 700# payload.
BTW the 1000# lift is AT the frame , NOT 24" out(typical forklift spec). Kub deals in sillymeteres but it'll be listed. 1000 at frame could be 600-700 2' out, and I bet the blocks are on a 42" deep skid ? The further away from the loader frame, the less it'll lift.
Makes sense man, I just thought it was a weird situation at the time. I guess I'm so used to my machine and the way it behaves, I just thought it was weird his tractor didn't even lift up on the rear wheels. I also have an aftermarket loader on my tractor, so I'm wondering if there is less limitations on my loader than what Kubota would have spec'd.
 

mikester

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Upset because your SCUT loader won't lift the rear wheels off the ground attempting to lift a pallet of cinderblocks? The best way to fix the problem is by changing the operator.
 
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GreensvilleJay

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re: I also have an aftermarket loader on my tractor, so I'm wondering if there is less limitations on my loader than what Kubota would have spec'd.

That all depends on the actual weight of the loader and forks. If those are 200# lighter than the Kubota specs, then you could lift 200# more 'stuff'. But, if your loader/forks weigh 300# MORE ,then you can't lift as much.

It's also important to install whatever counterweight Kubota recommends. Say it's 300#. Options would be 'loaded ' tires, rim weights or 'something' on the 3PH. I prefer a carryall and a skid of weight. The 1st 2 put extra weight/stress on the tractor 24/7, a 'skid of weight' can be 'dialed in' for the correct amount of counter weight AND can be quickly & easily removed after being used. Whatever works best for you, your tractor in your situation is your choice.
 
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Goz63

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Just getting to this thread. I know what the op is saying. Look at the Mesicks videos and seems when he is trying to get a reading on how much the loader would lift he was trying to “lift” a buried tire and gauged the lift force. He would lift the back wheels off the ground when he maxed out. i Think he is saying not that it won’t lift the pallet but that when it “maxes out” it just stops and doesn’t pull the back up. Would make sense with ballast but without it I agree it would seem to that the back end should start to lift. I am by no means an expert so take that for what it’s worth.
 
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TheOldHokie

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The loader and tractor combination is designed to lift the rated load without the need for 3pt ballast. That is a operating design goal and you do that by engineering boom geometry and load distribution on the tractor. Why is that so hard to understand?

Dan
 

GreensvilleJay

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I've read the mfr recommends wheel weights or filled rear tires when using a loader. My option allows for easy counterweight when required. In 3 years, I've never had the BH off my BX23S, so I don't know if it's really stable lifting a full bucket up high.
 

motionclone

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Full pallets of 8" block up my way are 90 block per pallet and about 3K pounds. thats part of the reason i got rid of my L345 and got a skidsteer. these tractors just arent meant to lift heavy stuff.
 
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Work Horse

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Just getting to this thread. I know what the op is saying. Look at the Mesicks videos and seems when he is trying to get a reading on how much the loader would lift he was trying to “lift” a buried tire and gauged the lift force. He would lift the back wheels off the ground when he maxed out. i Think he is saying not that it won’t lift the pallet but that when it “maxes out” it just stops and doesn’t pull the back up. Would make sense with ballast but without it I agree it would seem to that the back end should start to lift. I am by no means an expert so take that for what it’s worth.
That's exactly what I'm referring to. My situation with my tractor could just be different from others. That seems to be the general answer.
 

Work Horse

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Jan 21, 2020
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Full pallets of 8" block up my way are 90 block per pallet and about 3K pounds. thats part of the reason i got rid of my L345 and got a skidsteer. these tractors just arent meant to lift heavy stuff.
Your dead on. I only had 35 left and I thought my brother in laws tractor had enough uumph to lift them up, but nope. I knew the ass end of my tractor would have been in the air, that's why I thought it was weird at the time. I'd love to get a skid steer, but I'm moving and the market is sky high. Eventually ....
 

Work Horse

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It always amazes me how people can come across as an arrogant a$$ on theses sites. Can you understand what I’m sayin?
Yep. I didn't think what I was asking/stating was that crazy but apparently everything should be common knowledge to everyone. And I do get what guys like OldHokie are saying... I had just never seen a machine attempt to lift something and seemingly nothing happened.

On many occasions I've seen fork trucks 'tested' to their limits, and the rear wheels pop up. It's not an apples to apples comparison, but obviously a fork truck has a higher hydraulic lift capacity than a tractor.