LED work lights and radio interference

[Orange1forme]

I changed my factory front lights to LEDs and added LEDs to the rear in the stock locations.

When I use the rear lights they make my FM headphones have poor reception/interference.

Is there something to be done?

Can't say if it has the same effect on the radio, I don't use it much.

 

[200mph]

I changed my factory front lights to LEDs and added LEDs to the rear in the stock locations.

When I use the rear lights they make my FM headphones have poor reception/interference.

Is there something to be done?

Can't say if it has the same effect on the radio, I don't use it much.

YES. Don't wear headphones while operating your tractor!

Purchase LED lights with the proper shielding.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

YES. Don't wear headphones while operating your tractor!

Purchase LED lights with the proper shielding.

So is it better to go deaf running your tractor?

I wear earplugs, earphones anytime I operate my tractors or Bobcat, I can still hear anything that's going on that shouldn't be going on.

 

[Orange1forme]

YES. Don't wear headphones while operating your tractor!

Sarcasm, I hope.

Purchase LED lights with the proper shielding.
While I can't be sure, the wiring for the lights is less than 4". The remainder is Kubota factory wiring.

 

[Orange1forme]

So is it better to go deaf running your tractor?

I wear earplugs, earphones anytime I operate my tractors or Bobcat, I can still hear anything that's going on that shouldn't be going on.

Exactly!!!

 

[dochsml]

I changed my factory front lights to LEDs and added LEDs to the rear in the stock locations.

When I use the rear lights they make my FM headphones have poor reception/interference.

Is there something to be done?

Can't say if it has the same effect on the radio, I don't use it much.

Probably RFI / EMI noise coming from the transformer. Would either need to change the transformer for a better one that has RF filter or could possibly install ferrite beads on the input and output of the transformer to suppress the noise. Not sure how accessible the transformer is?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

transformer ??? I'd like to know what LED lights you have that have transformers in. I design microcomputer controlled devices with LOTS of LEDs and NONE have 'transfomers' in them, so I'm curious as to the actual design of them.tranformers are costly to design/build so most avoid them
if it's some kind of buck-boost powersupply then a simple choke and cap on the feed will suppress that 'noise' from backfeeding to the radio power. If it's EMI ( airborne) , get a better radio. I've got a $5 madeinChina fm radio works fine.

 

[SidecarFlip]

You purchase CHEAP LED's, you get what you pay for. You buy (and pay for) quality SMD's you won't have that issue.

Amazon is loaded with cheap SMD's. Most all of them are noisy too.

 

[dochsml]

transformer ??? I'd like to know what LED lights you have that have transformers in. I design microcomputer controlled devices with LOTS of LEDs and NONE have 'transfomers' in them, so I'm curious as to the actual design of them.tranformers are costly to design/build so most avoid them
if it's some kind of buck-boost powersupply then a simple choke and cap on the feed will suppress that 'noise' from backfeeding to the radio power. If it's EMI ( airborne) , get a better radio. I've got a $5 madeinChina fm radio works fine.

You are correct. No transformer. It was late and I was thinking of AC worklights for some reason. Nevertheless, ferrite beads may still help the situation.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

transformer ??? I'd like to know what LED lights you have that have transformers in. I design microcomputer controlled devices with LOTS of LEDs and NONE have 'transfomers' in them, so I'm curious as to the actual design of them.tranformers are costly to design/build so most avoid them
if it's some kind of buck-boost powersupply then a simple choke and cap on the feed will suppress that 'noise' from backfeeding to the radio power. If it's EMI ( airborne) , get a better radio. I've got a $5 madeinChina fm radio works fine.

You missed the fact they are headphones so no power supply interference is happening!

 

[dochsml]

Also, if you do try installing ferrite bead(s), make sure you get ones that are for FM interference ~100 MHz.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Also, if you do try installing ferrite bead(s), make sure you get ones that are for FM interference ~100 MHz.

Where are you going to install these beads?

 

[dochsml]

Where are you going to install these beads?

Around the incoming power wire as close to the lights as possible. Should be able to find ones that will clamshell clamp around it. Not a miracle cure, but may help.

 

[GeoHorn]

Recent new regulations in aviation require that ALL aircraft operating above 10K’ and/or within congested airspace (within 30 miles of large airports) be equipped with a new type of in/out surveillance system that augments radar called “ADS-B” and there’s no cheap way to do it. The minimum investment for even the smallest airplanes is $2K just to replace ONE wingtip lightbulb. (This is as short a description as I can make without teaching avionics ground-school, but is an accurate bottom-line.)

The point is these new wingtip lights are VERY sophisticated LED lights which must be certified by FAA, FTC, FCC, Mil-Spec, TSO, etc etc. They MUST NOT interfere with other important electronic equipment, not only on-board the modified aircraft, but ALSO must not interfere with any other aircraft OR the Nat’l Airspace Traffic Control System. Point is: This is sophisticated electronics, not your typical “cheap china LEDs”. (They contain LEDs, GPS, Altitude Sensors, radio transmitter/receiver and on-board WIFI all built-in to that wingtip light smaller than a household light-bulb.)

Guess what? My Delta Airline Captain buddy complains that the one on his small Cessna interferes with his professional-grade headset whenever it’s light is turned on for nighttime use. The certified aircraft-avionics shop cannot figure out why.
When we were discussing it over a fly-in breakfast in front of an Air Force B-1 Bomber avionics technician... He said, “Hey! That’s what happens in my Dad’s little Cessna too! I’ve pulled my hair out trying to figure it out!”

Little ol’ simple me, thinking back to my High School days Knight-Kit phonograph player I put together because my older brother wouldn’t let me play “TelStar” on his new “Hi-Fidelity” player.
It had a “humm” in it’s audio until I installed a ferrite-coil in the speaker circuit.
So I told the B-2 ECM (Electronic counter-measures) guy about it, and suggested he wrap the ADS-B power-lead-wire around a pencil a few wraps and/or use a ferrite-ring and see if that helped.
The very next day he called to share the news...IT WORKED!

Very simple method. Give it a try... coil up about an inch of power lead to that LED worklight, and/or shield it by wrapping the lead inside a grounded co-axial lead.

 

[dochsml]

Recent new regulations in aviation require that ALL aircraft operating above 10K’ and/or within congested airspace (within 30 miles of large airports) be equipped with a new type of in/out surveillance system that augments radar called “ADS-B” and there’s no cheap way to do it. The minimum investment for even the smallest airplanes is $2K just to replace ONE wingtip lightbulb. (This is as short a description as I can make without teaching avionics ground-school, but is an accurate bottom-line.)

The point is these new wingtip lights are VERY sophisticated LED lights which must be certified by FAA, FTC, FCC, Mil-Spec, TSO, etc etc. They MUST NOT interfere with other important electronic equipment, not only on-board the modified aircraft, but ALSO must not interfere with any other aircraft OR the Nat’l Airspace Traffic Control System. Point is: This is sophisticated electronics, not your typical “cheap china LEDs”. (They contain LEDs, GPS, Altitude Sensors, radio transmitter/receiver and on-board WIFI all built-in to that wingtip light smaller than a household light-bulb.)

Guess what? My Delta Airline Captain buddy complains that the one on his small Cessna interferes with his professional-grade headset whenever it’s light is turned on for nighttime use. The certified aircraft-avionics shop cannot figure out why.
When we were discussing it over a fly-in breakfast in front of an Air Force B-1 Bomber avionics technician... He said, “Hey! That’s what happens in my Dad’s little Cessna too! I’ve pulled my hair out trying to figure it out!”

Little ol’ simple me, thinking back to my High School days Knight-Kit phonograph player I put together because my older brother wouldn’t let me play “TelStar” on his new “Hi-Fidelity” player.
It had a “humm” in it’s audio until I installed a ferrite-coil in the speaker circuit.
So I told the B-2 ECM (Electronic counter-measures) guy about it, and suggested he wrap the ADS-B power-lead-wire around a pencil a few wraps and/or use a ferrite-ring and see if that helped.
The very next day he called to share the news...IT WORKED!

Very simple method. Give it a try... coil up about an inch of power lead to that LED worklight, and/or shield it by wrapping the lead inside a grounded co-axial lead.

Yes, this is a good point. If you can get a wrap (or two) around the inside of a ferrite bead, it will work better than simply snapping it on. Of course you would need some extra length to do so. This noise is absolutely everywhere nowadays it’s a miracle anything ever works. I was watching something the other day that said if you represented the entire electromagnetic spectrum as a role of movie film that stretched from NYC to LA, the visible light part of that spectrum would be a single frame of that film in the middle. Since we can’t see it, manufacturers can get away with making noisy things.

 

[Mlarv]

Are the head phones Blue Tooth? This adds to the noise the LEDS emit. The chock around the power going to the LEDS might help. Or run the power wires a different way might help also. The problem is the LEDs themselves are just noisy, and better ones have more filtering to get rid of the noise.

 

[dlsmith]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but an LED is simply a diode that if fabricated in a certain way out of the correct materials so that it generates light at a junction and should not be able to generate any RF interference by itself.

Now, if it has a PWM (pulse width modulator) that is driving the LEDs, then I can see a interference problem, as they generate square waves of varying duty cycles that are going to have a lot of harmonics to allow the dimming or brightening rather than being connected directly to a power source.

Also, as I may have seen mentioned in a previous post, possibly there is a buck converter in the circuit to raise or lower the voltage delivered to the LEDs. If so, buck converters can generate RF interference due to changing incoming DC to AC with a high frequency switching circuit and then converting it back to DC.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Bottom line on any LED with me is, you buy cheap off brand LED's you get what you didn't pay for. I only buy CREE SMD's and I've never had issue one.

 

[Orange1forme]

All the wiring is factory, except for the LED light pigtails.

It is only the rear lights that are causing the "noise".

I will check to see, but yes they were purchased online and not hundreds of dollars. They were Nilight, but not sure the quality or LED components.

 

[dochsml]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but an LED is simply a diode that if fabricated in a certain way out of the correct materials so that it generates light at a junction and should not be able to generate any RF interference by itself.

Now, if it has a PWM (pulse width modulator) that is driving the LEDs, then I can see a interference problem, as they generate square waves of varying duty cycles that are going to have a lot of harmonics to allow the dimming or brightening rather than being connected directly to a power source.

Also, as I may have seen mentioned in a previous post, possibly there is a buck converter in the circuit to raise or lower the voltage delivered to the LEDs. If so, buck converters can generate RF interference due to changing incoming DC to AC with a high frequency switching circuit and then converting it back to DC.

You are correct. The LEDs by themselves are not generating the interference. It has more to do with the rest of the circuit that is driving them. I think everyone on here when referring to LEDs means LED light bar as a whole unit. The actual LEDs are just part of that light bar. This isn’t something that I’ve personally looked into, but it’s pretty widely talked about. A quick Google search and you will find lots of people demonstrating this with videos. I could only speculate what is actually causing the noise.